I'm older than the stains on Lizzie Borden's floor.
You old cuss. I’m both surprised and not so.
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Are turntables and records worth it financially?
- Thread starter Chrisp2112
- Start date
You old cuss. I’m both surprised and not so.
Telecolor 3007
I love old stuff
I only buy records if I find them cheap. There are records for which I could pay 10-20 Dollars or Euros, but for most, no more then 2-6... If I don't like a record, I don't want to sell it a big loss.
If they are off center enough that I can tell, I just throw them out.
Easier than finding that Nakamichi TT that corrects for it.
I’ve been selling my stuff off piecemeal the last several years and possibly might totally discard the media since streaming and digital files provide me a suitable solution without the mass.
For my level of listening, there is little to no difference between LOs, CDs, and streaming, so there’s no need to have physical media, or at least not the hundreds, if not thousands, of pieces I had, and certainly not the duplicates I currently own in the same or multiple media. The real kicker is that honestly 90% of it lays unplayed, some of it literally never or for decades.
Over a decade ago, I sold 95% of my tape gear to switch to digital, but recently repaired my remaining last 3 cassette decks and revisited some of cassettes I had, especially the radio shows I recorded years ago. I really enjoyed one tape and was going to digitize it, but realized I could accomplish the same result by making a Quboz playlist. Yesterday, I played a CD I never played and enjoyed it, but it’s available online and via download, so why not. Truthfully, I’m even purging some of my digital media on hand if it is available via streaming as I don’t need the clutter on my hard drive when a few keystrokes pulls it up online.
The best part is the peace of mind the open space brings as well as the cash generated by selling off unused items. Those proceeds have easily paid for my digital gear and lightened the load my family will have to deal with when I’m gone. Now that I’m retired, I have the time to list and ship the stuff, especially in the cold Michigan winters and can enjoy the openness resulting from moving racks of unused items.
But to each their own. If I was 40 years younger I’d have a different perspective, but now I realize that I can’t take it with me, so why hold onto it if I’m not actively using it. And that applies not only to media, but to anything be it gear, tools, clothes, hardware, etc, etc. It’s nice having less clutter and more ready access than shelves, bins, drawers, and boxes to rifle through every time I need something. It’s refreshing!
For my level of listening, there is little to no difference between LOs, CDs, and streaming, so there’s no need to have physical media, or at least not the hundreds, if not thousands, of pieces I had, and certainly not the duplicates I currently own in the same or multiple media. The real kicker is that honestly 90% of it lays unplayed, some of it literally never or for decades.
Over a decade ago, I sold 95% of my tape gear to switch to digital, but recently repaired my remaining last 3 cassette decks and revisited some of cassettes I had, especially the radio shows I recorded years ago. I really enjoyed one tape and was going to digitize it, but realized I could accomplish the same result by making a Quboz playlist. Yesterday, I played a CD I never played and enjoyed it, but it’s available online and via download, so why not. Truthfully, I’m even purging some of my digital media on hand if it is available via streaming as I don’t need the clutter on my hard drive when a few keystrokes pulls it up online.
The best part is the peace of mind the open space brings as well as the cash generated by selling off unused items. Those proceeds have easily paid for my digital gear and lightened the load my family will have to deal with when I’m gone. Now that I’m retired, I have the time to list and ship the stuff, especially in the cold Michigan winters and can enjoy the openness resulting from moving racks of unused items.
But to each their own. If I was 40 years younger I’d have a different perspective, but now I realize that I can’t take it with me, so why hold onto it if I’m not actively using it. And that applies not only to media, but to anything be it gear, tools, clothes, hardware, etc, etc. It’s nice having less clutter and more ready access than shelves, bins, drawers, and boxes to rifle through every time I need something. It’s refreshing!
Hmmm. If you have to ask…
If you’re my age (a child of the early ’60s), you probably grew up with a turntable and vinyl. So, convincing yourself otherwise might be the more difficult task.
After I moved to NYC, I lived for decades without a TT or my vinyl collection (over 1,000 albums I recently recovered from my mother’s basement, which are stored now in my own basement because I’m out of shelf space in my listening room).
Twenty years ago, after I bought a house, I was gifted my brother’s Denon TT. Since then, I’ve purchase a few dozen albums (mostly jazz) and also inherited my FIL’s compact but well-chosen classical collection. So, today, I have a fairly good library of vinyl (not that I want to listen to most of the pop and rock I purchased back in the ’70s—as my tastes have expanded since then). But I’m still more likely to grab a CD (I don’t stream) than to select, clean, and put on a vinyl record. And I’m planning to get a ladder tube DAC.
But, generally, vinyl is the more seductive and satisfying medium, even if its dynamic range isn’t as wide. I’m almost always pleasantly surprised at how good—right—vinyl sounds. Any faults of vinyl quickly recede once I’m listening. To me, vinyl is still “worth” it. And if I had the coin, I’d definitely invest in a restored Garrard 301. The better the table and cartridge and arm, the better vinyl sounds.
However, at my age and with my relationship to vinyl and TTs, part of the pleasure is just knowing the TT is there, sitting idle—at the ready. It feels right, normal, comforting. Homey. Like having a good chair in the living room—even if you rarely use it.
But “worth” all comes down to one’s personal values and the depth of one’s pockets. (I’ve owned some very nice things that caused me too much anxiety.)
My wealthy friend has a yacht that mostly sits at the dock behind his house in Florida. I asked him how he decided on the size. He said it’s the biggest the waterway will allow. When we last visited him and his wife, he had his boat captain ferry us to a nearby island for lunch. (God only knows how much that cost.) The lobster rolls and good wine were typically priced. But add to that the yacht’s upkeep, the cleaning, the taxes, the docking fees, the fuel, the crew…etc. The captain’s daily fee, alone? IDK. Ultimately, not my concern.
The boat trip was great. The restaurant lunch was fine (nothing, in and of itself, to write home about). But it was very nice to be on the water. Was it all “worth” it?
It wouldn’t be to me—if I had to foot the bill and manage the yacht. But, after seeing the contentment on his face, I have to think that it gives my friend a certain amount of comfort, pleasure (pride, perhaps?), just seeing his boat sitting there, always available—his captain a phone call away. It must be similar to that provided by my TT, even when, idle, it sits—at the ready—collecting dust.
If you’re my age (a child of the early ’60s), you probably grew up with a turntable and vinyl. So, convincing yourself otherwise might be the more difficult task.
After I moved to NYC, I lived for decades without a TT or my vinyl collection (over 1,000 albums I recently recovered from my mother’s basement, which are stored now in my own basement because I’m out of shelf space in my listening room).
Twenty years ago, after I bought a house, I was gifted my brother’s Denon TT. Since then, I’ve purchase a few dozen albums (mostly jazz) and also inherited my FIL’s compact but well-chosen classical collection. So, today, I have a fairly good library of vinyl (not that I want to listen to most of the pop and rock I purchased back in the ’70s—as my tastes have expanded since then). But I’m still more likely to grab a CD (I don’t stream) than to select, clean, and put on a vinyl record. And I’m planning to get a ladder tube DAC.
But, generally, vinyl is the more seductive and satisfying medium, even if its dynamic range isn’t as wide. I’m almost always pleasantly surprised at how good—right—vinyl sounds. Any faults of vinyl quickly recede once I’m listening. To me, vinyl is still “worth” it. And if I had the coin, I’d definitely invest in a restored Garrard 301. The better the table and cartridge and arm, the better vinyl sounds.
However, at my age and with my relationship to vinyl and TTs, part of the pleasure is just knowing the TT is there, sitting idle—at the ready. It feels right, normal, comforting. Homey. Like having a good chair in the living room—even if you rarely use it.
But “worth” all comes down to one’s personal values and the depth of one’s pockets. (I’ve owned some very nice things that caused me too much anxiety.)
My wealthy friend has a yacht that mostly sits at the dock behind his house in Florida. I asked him how he decided on the size. He said it’s the biggest the waterway will allow. When we last visited him and his wife, he had his boat captain ferry us to a nearby island for lunch. (God only knows how much that cost.) The lobster rolls and good wine were typically priced. But add to that the yacht’s upkeep, the cleaning, the taxes, the docking fees, the fuel, the crew…etc. The captain’s daily fee, alone? IDK. Ultimately, not my concern.
The boat trip was great. The restaurant lunch was fine (nothing, in and of itself, to write home about). But it was very nice to be on the water. Was it all “worth” it?
It wouldn’t be to me—if I had to foot the bill and manage the yacht. But, after seeing the contentment on his face, I have to think that it gives my friend a certain amount of comfort, pleasure (pride, perhaps?), just seeing his boat sitting there, always available—his captain a phone call away. It must be similar to that provided by my TT, even when, idle, it sits—at the ready—collecting dust.
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Some things go beyond cash value.Are turntables and records worth it financially?
Gee, I hope so, it's too late to return them.
At least, you would hope so...
When I first started buying records, the standard price for new releases at Tower Records was $7.99. That is about $31.00 in today's money.
There are still lots of bargains out there on new vinyl. Here are a few recent purchases from Amazon:
Fleetwood Mac - Tusk on clear vinyl - $15.49
Fleetwood Mac - Heroes are Hard to Find on Coke bottle green vinyl - $9.84
Wings - Venus & Mars - 50th Anniversary, Half-Speed Mastered - $24.70
Steve Miller Band - Book of Dreams 180 gram - $21.00
Steve Miller Band - Fly Like an Eagle 180 gram - $21.00
A few years ago, I picked up a couple Jimi Hendrix records on Amazon:
Electric Ladyland - Remastered 180 grams - $15.49
Are You Experienced - Remastered 180 grams -$12.49
You just need to be patient and keep an eye out for bargains.
There are still lots of bargains out there on new vinyl. Here are a few recent purchases from Amazon:
Fleetwood Mac - Tusk on clear vinyl - $15.49
Fleetwood Mac - Heroes are Hard to Find on Coke bottle green vinyl - $9.84
Wings - Venus & Mars - 50th Anniversary, Half-Speed Mastered - $24.70
Steve Miller Band - Book of Dreams 180 gram - $21.00
Steve Miller Band - Fly Like an Eagle 180 gram - $21.00
A few years ago, I picked up a couple Jimi Hendrix records on Amazon:
Electric Ladyland - Remastered 180 grams - $15.49
Are You Experienced - Remastered 180 grams -$12.49
You just need to be patient and keep an eye out for bargains.
frankmarsi
Active Member
In an older area about 7 miles from me, from 2009 to 2017 there was turn-down building was a comic book, plastic figurine, monster-toys, etc. store where they had a section for used vinyl also. Customer-ship was scarce on the vinyl so, I would usually be alone searching. The store’s owner had been there for years before I ever saw it. They offered just ‘O.K.’ condition records for $.99 , for good condition records $1.99 and for sealed ones up to $2.99. and a bonus .99 one for every ten you bought.
In that period of time I was there almost every month and sometimes twice a month. I realized they had Many were very good and most in better condition that when critically looked at were in far better condition than the store owner thought they were. Needless to say, I amassed about 6000 records in the period.
In the later part of 2009 I realized I was almost getting away with something that I had to admit this to the store’s owner. I said he should actually be charging more for his records than he was. He smiled and said: “no customers”. I explained to him that at that time in 2009-10 that vinyl was making a huge come-back. He seemed not to care and went back to his old desk.
Needless to say I was gaining vinyl numbers of disks and losing floor space. I also realized I needed to buy a record cleaning set-up.
In the late 1960’s through out the 1970’s I used the Dust-Bug, the Disc Preener et-al. Then in the late ’70’s the “Disc Washer’ came out and I used that also. But at the present moment, things were different and I wanted to complete my years-in-progress vintage system. Additionally with the used vinyl numbers taking over my living areas I was using primitive methods like one can find all over the inter-webs and here too. I even bought a used Technics SL-1700 table just to spin the records as I experimented with different types of brushes and fluid mixtures. Some disks turned out just O.K. some others were simply dismal. It was quickly becoming obvious that I had to become more serious if I wanted this cleaning idea to work and if I wanted to bring my system closer to being completed. Besides, shortly I’d be retiring and after 50+ years of doing the hi-fi thing as it were, I wanted better listening quality NOW!
I broke the piggy-bank and purchased a V.P.I. 16.5 record cleaning machine. Talk about revelations to my ears because finally I was cleaning my disks correctly I continued to read my Ster_o F_l_ magazines to learn more about the vinyl resurgence and to learn better and more professional methods of cleaning. I experimented with different mixtures of fluids again on the VPI until I realized that all my efforts in cleaning surely must be realized through and with a better fono-cartridge.
Once I bought an entry level Denon 301 II moving coil and a Denon AU-320 SUT, there no going back to my ancient over 34 year attitude of listening.
I knew by further reading unlike countless folks do on forums that although the ‘brush and vacuum method were the best I ever knew of that ‘Ultras-Sonic’ cleaning was becoming the vogue in the high-end publications and web sites.
Long story-short, I bought into the US method, which prompted me to buy better cartridges so as to further realize my new cleaning methods were paying off. Surely that led my to upgrade my cartridges to the “Lyra” lines and other top cartridges.
My system has never sounded better and I happier than I ever imagined I would be or, should I say I not slight myself in this life-time by short changing my desires to have the best sound I could have in may life.
The only way I will get better sound quality is to spend a fortune on hi-end components which I am not ready to do. It’s why decided to stay with better quality vintage stuff where even my speakers are over 50 years old as are are my tables, my amps from 1980. And although each piece has either been rebuilt or mildly restored the core acoustic-suspension along with high wattage amplification from the “Golden-Era” of Hi-Fi is my choice. Expressing those concepts along with better interconnects, critical set-up of turntables and especially tonearms and cartridges and I’m completely satisfied.
P.S. with that number of disks, I chose a system where I can effectively clean 7 to 10 disks at one time. Typically, I’d clean 40 disks on a good day. That included new inner sleeves (I retain the original in the jacket) and new outer jackets. I cleaned so many disks, it became boring and I’m on a hiatus until I finish playing the over 3500 disks I’ve already cleaned. Pardon the taken in 2014 foto but, a friend took it with special wide-angle lens that I don’t have to reshoot with. Lighting conditions weren’t optimal so, that’s the result full-scope foto I have of the system.
FM
Below: Four AR-LST speakers, two Phase Linear fully-Complementary rebuilt PL-700 II amps, Carver C-4000 pre-amp, S.A.E. 1800 EQ, INPUTS: Revox A77 Mk.4, two original first issue Technics SL-1200’s, a Thorens TD125, Lyra Delos, Kleos and, Benz-Micro ‘Gull-Wing’ cartridges, 3 minty S.M.E. 3009 Pre-Improved 9" tonearms, a Denon AU-340 and AU-320 SUT’s, Marantz CD players, Straight-Wire Symphony II interconnects, 12 AWG copper speaker cables with gold plated spades. Adjustable low-noise fans for the amps,’pro’ table work lights.Room is 26x12.5 feet. Speakers of course are fused and volumes are usually high almost to ‘you-are-there’ life-like levels. This system can do it!
Approximately 1000 jazz disks, 1000+ classical music disks, and the rest is ‘ROCK’ from the late 1960’s up to about 1990 something. If you were there, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about and coming-from.
FM
Pardon the extended post but, I’ve been enthusiastic about proper hi-fi listening since before I was 14. System building for folks in my age range from the late '60s to '90s was paramount to my generation. Almost everyone owned a record-player and there were many stores that sold hi-fi stuff. I find it sad how different music enjoyment is today, no longer the focus or how exciting as it once was. We had to fill the room if not the whole house with music.
FM
3k
In that period of time I was there almost every month and sometimes twice a month. I realized they had Many were very good and most in better condition that when critically looked at were in far better condition than the store owner thought they were. Needless to say, I amassed about 6000 records in the period.
In the later part of 2009 I realized I was almost getting away with something that I had to admit this to the store’s owner. I said he should actually be charging more for his records than he was. He smiled and said: “no customers”. I explained to him that at that time in 2009-10 that vinyl was making a huge come-back. He seemed not to care and went back to his old desk.
Needless to say I was gaining vinyl numbers of disks and losing floor space. I also realized I needed to buy a record cleaning set-up.
In the late 1960’s through out the 1970’s I used the Dust-Bug, the Disc Preener et-al. Then in the late ’70’s the “Disc Washer’ came out and I used that also. But at the present moment, things were different and I wanted to complete my years-in-progress vintage system. Additionally with the used vinyl numbers taking over my living areas I was using primitive methods like one can find all over the inter-webs and here too. I even bought a used Technics SL-1700 table just to spin the records as I experimented with different types of brushes and fluid mixtures. Some disks turned out just O.K. some others were simply dismal. It was quickly becoming obvious that I had to become more serious if I wanted this cleaning idea to work and if I wanted to bring my system closer to being completed. Besides, shortly I’d be retiring and after 50+ years of doing the hi-fi thing as it were, I wanted better listening quality NOW!
I broke the piggy-bank and purchased a V.P.I. 16.5 record cleaning machine. Talk about revelations to my ears because finally I was cleaning my disks correctly I continued to read my Ster_o F_l_ magazines to learn more about the vinyl resurgence and to learn better and more professional methods of cleaning. I experimented with different mixtures of fluids again on the VPI until I realized that all my efforts in cleaning surely must be realized through and with a better fono-cartridge.
Once I bought an entry level Denon 301 II moving coil and a Denon AU-320 SUT, there no going back to my ancient over 34 year attitude of listening.
I knew by further reading unlike countless folks do on forums that although the ‘brush and vacuum method were the best I ever knew of that ‘Ultras-Sonic’ cleaning was becoming the vogue in the high-end publications and web sites.
Long story-short, I bought into the US method, which prompted me to buy better cartridges so as to further realize my new cleaning methods were paying off. Surely that led my to upgrade my cartridges to the “Lyra” lines and other top cartridges.
My system has never sounded better and I happier than I ever imagined I would be or, should I say I not slight myself in this life-time by short changing my desires to have the best sound I could have in may life.
The only way I will get better sound quality is to spend a fortune on hi-end components which I am not ready to do. It’s why decided to stay with better quality vintage stuff where even my speakers are over 50 years old as are are my tables, my amps from 1980. And although each piece has either been rebuilt or mildly restored the core acoustic-suspension along with high wattage amplification from the “Golden-Era” of Hi-Fi is my choice. Expressing those concepts along with better interconnects, critical set-up of turntables and especially tonearms and cartridges and I’m completely satisfied.
P.S. with that number of disks, I chose a system where I can effectively clean 7 to 10 disks at one time. Typically, I’d clean 40 disks on a good day. That included new inner sleeves (I retain the original in the jacket) and new outer jackets. I cleaned so many disks, it became boring and I’m on a hiatus until I finish playing the over 3500 disks I’ve already cleaned. Pardon the taken in 2014 foto but, a friend took it with special wide-angle lens that I don’t have to reshoot with. Lighting conditions weren’t optimal so, that’s the result full-scope foto I have of the system.
FM
Below: Four AR-LST speakers, two Phase Linear fully-Complementary rebuilt PL-700 II amps, Carver C-4000 pre-amp, S.A.E. 1800 EQ, INPUTS: Revox A77 Mk.4, two original first issue Technics SL-1200’s, a Thorens TD125, Lyra Delos, Kleos and, Benz-Micro ‘Gull-Wing’ cartridges, 3 minty S.M.E. 3009 Pre-Improved 9" tonearms, a Denon AU-340 and AU-320 SUT’s, Marantz CD players, Straight-Wire Symphony II interconnects, 12 AWG copper speaker cables with gold plated spades. Adjustable low-noise fans for the amps,’pro’ table work lights.Room is 26x12.5 feet. Speakers of course are fused and volumes are usually high almost to ‘you-are-there’ life-like levels. This system can do it!
Approximately 1000 jazz disks, 1000+ classical music disks, and the rest is ‘ROCK’ from the late 1960’s up to about 1990 something. If you were there, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about and coming-from.
FM
Pardon the extended post but, I’ve been enthusiastic about proper hi-fi listening since before I was 14. System building for folks in my age range from the late '60s to '90s was paramount to my generation. Almost everyone owned a record-player and there were many stores that sold hi-fi stuff. I find it sad how different music enjoyment is today, no longer the focus or how exciting as it once was. We had to fill the room if not the whole house with music.
FM
3k
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TL;DR the whole thread, but obviously records and record playing equipment are not financially worth it. I’m a vinyl nut, but I’m not doing it to make a profit or breaking even… I accept the cost and enjoy my hobby of collecting records and up keeping a nice record playing setup. Maybe, in a few decades my collection will be worth thousands? Don’t know and don’t care….
Cheers,
Luis
Cheers,
Luis
Genov
Super Member
Well said. To my ears, the sound floor is obviously not as low, but the sound of vinyl is more ‘whole’.
There is a certain level of clarity (that level is subjective) where you lose (sacrifice) natural for clean.
All of this said, I’d hate to think about the price and time of starting from scratch with phono play. Much easier to get to an endpoint with digital.
onepixel
.
Depends...
I got these new vinyl for regular prices, between $7 - 17.
Except the James Last, got that from my uncle when he passed.
Kenny Burrell and Santana (+poster), used for $1 a piece.
All M to NM.
CDs
Beth Orton, 5000 issues. Bought that around 2011 for $240.
Ivy Levan, only issue. Paid around $25, about 6 years ago.
I got these new vinyl for regular prices, between $7 - 17.
Except the James Last, got that from my uncle when he passed.
Kenny Burrell and Santana (+poster), used for $1 a piece.
All M to NM.
CDs
Beth Orton, 5000 issues. Bought that around 2011 for $240.
Ivy Levan, only issue. Paid around $25, about 6 years ago.
bluesky
Lunatic Member
Maybe try this ... a realistic approach:
Listen to a good vinyl album on a good TT with good speakers (analog).
Then listen to the same album, same stereo system, in CD (digital).
If you think the LP sound is so much 'better' - You're in BIG trouble!!
Welcome to the world of vinyl. It is an expensive endeavor & a labor of love.
If you do not really hear the difference between analog and digital, or really don't hear that much difference, or... you like the sound of digital better - digital is a much easier and cheaper road to travel. And albums are darn near free M-.
It is costly to get into analog - TT, carts, headshells, TT rack, accessories, etc. It's a labor of love and $$ for the analog sound.
Something like that. Hope this helps.
Listen to a good vinyl album on a good TT with good speakers (analog).
Then listen to the same album, same stereo system, in CD (digital).
If you think the LP sound is so much 'better' - You're in BIG trouble!!
Welcome to the world of vinyl. It is an expensive endeavor & a labor of love.
If you do not really hear the difference between analog and digital, or really don't hear that much difference, or... you like the sound of digital better - digital is a much easier and cheaper road to travel. And albums are darn near free M-.
It is costly to get into analog - TT, carts, headshells, TT rack, accessories, etc. It's a labor of love and $$ for the analog sound.
Something like that. Hope this helps.
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From my understanding about these topics, there is something that many people disregard in terms of the “qualities” of analog audio and particularly vinyl reproduction. It can handle massive amounts of headroom compared to digital. This results in a “different” experience as a listener.
A record fully mastered in the analog domain needs much less compression in the final master for vinyl pressing. In comparison to the final digital master for a CD or lossy streaming.
The problem with digital is then, that you cannot go past 0 dBFS. And thus you can’t master a track with a very low average level as to have a 10-15 dB’s of headroom. So, a substantial amount of compression is needed to keep the average level high enough and not get into problems with the hard 0 dBFS limit. OTOH, you can master a vinyl record at an average 0 dB, and still have 10-15 dB’s of headroom. This makes a difference in how music sounds in the final delivery media.
I’m open to being corrected and learn something new.
Cheers,
Luis
A record fully mastered in the analog domain needs much less compression in the final master for vinyl pressing. In comparison to the final digital master for a CD or lossy streaming.
The problem with digital is then, that you cannot go past 0 dBFS. And thus you can’t master a track with a very low average level as to have a 10-15 dB’s of headroom. So, a substantial amount of compression is needed to keep the average level high enough and not get into problems with the hard 0 dBFS limit. OTOH, you can master a vinyl record at an average 0 dB, and still have 10-15 dB’s of headroom. This makes a difference in how music sounds in the final delivery media.
I’m open to being corrected and learn something new.
Cheers,
Luis
mrehorst
Super Member
That doesn't sound right. The dynamic range of a CD is 96 dB. Vinyl is about 60 dB at absolute maximum, generally lower, especially if the disc has been played a few times and/or not stored/handled very carefully.
What you say is 100% true. But I’m taking about the possibility (or impossibility) of mastering the average level close to 0 dbFS. Of course you can master a wonderful thing in digital, but would need the average level to be at -15 dBFS. So that you had the same headroom as a vinyl record mastered at an average 0 dB. So, this is why music in digital delivery formats has more compression than their analog vinyl versions. And that makes a sensible difference in perceived “qualities” of the music.