Bias Voltage Fisher TA-500 Mono

brud

Active Member
I am having difficulty in troubleshooting my -36v bias voltage on my TA-500 . I have measured -29v on the Red/Yellow centre tap, following this thru to -29v on Pins 5 on my output tubes - 6LGC, newly purchased. My plate voltage on the 6LGC’s is about 385v. I have kept my line voltage at 117v. I see that the filament string of 3 12AX7’s also runs off this -36v supply. I am unsure as to why I am only getting -29v, ? Power transformer. I am concerned I will overdrive the output valves at this voltage. Have people encountered this , if so how have they fixed the issue to allow a more negative bias voltage on the output tubes. Any input would be appreciated
Cheers
Bruce
Oz
 
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Some more info that may be of help :

Input voltages to 5V4GA rectifier - 388vac ( Schematic - 340Vac)
Output voltage of 5V4GA rectifier - 404vdc ( Schematic - 430vdc)

Input voltages to 6X4 rectifier - 200vac ( Schematic - 165vac )
Output voltages from 6X4 rectifier - 186vdc Schematic - 180vac )

Voltage across 400 ohm resistor -28v

10 ohm resistor output tube 1 (6GLC) cathode-ground = 79mA
10 ohm resistor output tube 2 (6GLC) cathode - ground = 76mA

Plate dissipation : Plate voltage 380vdc x .076 amps = 29 watts

I understand max plate power dissipation for the 6GLC is 30 watts.

I notice on the schematic it talks about some units used 920 ohm resistor instead of the 400 ohm one currently in my unit

Thoughts ?? ( and help please )
Cheers
Bruce
Oz
 
The bias voltage should be higher (more negative) than you're showing. Sounds like some work has already been done, as you have the 10 ohm cathode resistors installed to determine current draw on the output tubes.

Is your unit originally set up for EL37 tubes or 5881 (6L6 family) tubes? It will be labeled on the chassis. The 5881's came later and Fisher modified the bias circuit to provide a higher (more negative) voltage to properly bias the 5881's. What set up you have is part of the answer. You want yours set up for the 5881 type tubes to start.

Lift one end and check the values of the power resistor in the string with the 12AX7 heaters and the grid supply resistor (33K in some models) in the supply line to both output tube grids.

Realize that the Sams schematic is in error in listing EL34 or KT66 tubes. The Fisher 500 mono receiver never used either.

Also, when calculating plate current and dissipation, you need to subtract the screen current draw from the cathode current you calculate from the voltage across the 10 ohm cathode resistors. You can actually determine screen current draw by measuring the voltage drop across the 68 ohm screen resistors on the output tubes and using Ohm's Law.

You may find this thread helpful--it dealt with the same question and Dave Gillespie (in post #7) gives a great explanation of how the bias circuit in the 500 functions and how you can modify it to be able to adjust the negative bias voltage in the -36V supply:


This thread may also help:

 
The bias voltage should be higher (more negative) than you're showing. Sounds like some work has already been done, as you have the 10 ohm cathode resistors installed to determine current draw on the output tubes.

Is your unit originally set up for EL37 tubes or 5881 (6L6 family) tubes? It will be labeled on the chassis. The 5881's came later and Fisher modified the bias circuit to provide a higher (more negative) voltage to properly bias the 5881's. What set up you have is part of the answer. You want yours set up for the 5881 type tubes to start.

Lift one end and check the values of the power resistor in the string with the 12AX7 heaters and the grid supply resistor (33K in some models) in the supply line to both output tube grids.

Realize that the Sams schematic is in error in listing EL34 or KT66 tubes. The Fisher 500 mono receiver never used either.

Also, when calculating plate current and dissipation, you need to subtract the screen current draw from the cathode current you calculate from the voltage across the 10 ohm cathode resistors. You can actually determine screen current draw by measuring the voltage drop across the 68 ohm screen resistors on the output tubes and using Ohm's Law.

You may find this thread helpful--it dealt with the same question and Dave Gillespie (in post #7) gives a great explanation of how the bias circuit in the 500 functions and how you can modify it to be able to adjust the negative bias voltage in the -36V supply:


This thread may also help:

Thankyou so much for this info !! - When i purchased my unit it came without any output valves , so i suspect they were EL37’s , they sold them off or kept these prized tubes.
I will check the chassis for SN , i think it starts with a 2. It had alot of rust , which j removed and painted with anti-rust paint . However i kept these SN and model area original , so will check . Will read the suggested posts .
 
An update

Ok , I changed the 400 ohm resistor to 1K and installed a 5k pot inline with the -36v bias voltage.

However the maximum bias voltage I could achieve is -32v with 5k pot maxed out. I did remove V10 (12AX7) and the bias voltage went to -59v, the same with V8 . Replaced all valves and checked , still -32v.

I have also replaced both 470ohm and 33k resistors and coupling caps ,C69 and C70.

So am I correct in thinking that something is drawing excessive current. My 500 has marked on the chassis EL37’s for the output tubes.

Measuring across the 10ohm cathode resistors I installed , I get 66mA current. Still too high I believe for tube longevity.

So where too from here ?? Change the 1K resistor to 1.5k. OR is there something else some fault I haven’t yet found .

Thanks in advance
Bruce
Oz
 
Replaced my 5V4GA ( awaiting new one) with a 5AR4 and found my rectifier output voltage came into spec 432v, also my Plate voltage on my 6LGC’s also came into spec 402v. Bias voltage slightly up -33v but reflected current across the 10ohm resistor still 69mA - still too high original 5V4GA returned to cct. I tested this original 5V4GA on my tube tester it was only satisfactory .
 
I lost track of your original post. Did you replace all the power supply electrolytic caps? Your intuition that something is drawing down the whole power supply voltage, including the bias voltage, might be on track if you have one or more weak or bad electrolytic capacitor sections in the high voltage power supply.

Are you able to try a different set of output tubes to see the effect?

The 5AR4 rectifier has less voltage drop at operating conditions than the 5V4, which may help explain why the power supply voltages rose when it was in place.
 
I lost track of your original post. Did you replace all the power supply electrolytic caps? Your intuition that something is drawing down the whole power supply voltage, including the bias voltage, might be on track if you have one or more weak or bad electrolytic capacitor sections in the high voltage power supply.

Are you able to try a different set of output tubes to see the effect?

The 5AR4 rectifier has less voltage drop at operating conditions than the 5V4, which may help explain why the power supply voltages rose when it was in place.
Yes I have replaced all electrolytic caps in power supply .
 
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