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Big Receiver, Small Speakers (Advice Appreciated)

FAC 33

FAC 33

New Member
Hoping you experts can help make sure I make a good decision when buying a new set of speakers. I have a Pioneer SX-1050 that is rated at 105 WPC. At the moment my nice floorstanding Klipsch speakers are banished to the storage room, and I'm forced to use bookshelf speakers. To add to that, the space I have is tight even by bookshelf standards - I can't go with anything much taller than 12".

I've sort of zeroed in on the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1s. The size is right, price is fine, and I've owned Wharfedales in the past and been happy. However, I have two potential concerns. First, I want to make sure about matching the power correctly. The speaker specs list "suitable amplifier power" as 20-100 watts. Obviously the receiver is rated just slightly higher... will this work okay?

Second, I've noted that these speakers are rear-ported. They will literally be put on a bookshelf with a wall close behind. I've read in other threads that this is not optimal. Would these be a big mistake from that standpoint?

Any other suggestions would definitely be welcomed - it seems hard to find something compact that gets close to the 105 watt rating of the receiver. I could potentially lay the speakers on their sides (to mitigate the height restriction), but not sure about whether that's a good idea, either. Thanks!
 
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FAC 33 said:
Hoping you experts can help make sure I make a good decision when buying a new set of speakers. I have a Pioneer SX-1050 that is rated at 105 WPC. At the moment my nice floorstanding Klipsch speakers are banished to the storage room, and I'm forced to use bookshelf speakers. To add to that, the space I have is tight even by bookshelf standards - I can't go with anything much taller than 12".

I've sort of zeroed in on the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1s. The size is right, price is fine, and I've owned Wharfedales in the past and been happy. However, I have two potential concerns. First, I want to make sure about matching the power correctly. The speaker specs list "suitable amplifier power" as 20-100 watts. Obviously the receiver is rated just slightly higher... will this work okay?

Second, I've noted that these speakers are rear-ported. They will literally be put on a bookshelf with a wall close behind. I've read in other threads that this is not optimal. Would these be a big mistake from that standpoint?

Any other suggestions would definitely be welcomed - it seems hard to find something compact that gets close to the 105 watt rating of the receiver. I could potentially lay the speakers on their sides (to mitigate the height restriction), but not sure about whether that's a good idea, either. Thanks!
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Power rating is fine for your amp, I seriously doubt that you will be blasting at full volume. Do a research and check which speakers were designed to be placed on a bookshelf and close to a wall; PSB Alpha B/B1 immediately comes to mind. A front ported speaker might be a better option, but not always the case. I'm sure you will get good answers here.

If you have the luxury (ie. space) to use a subwoofer, then there are many options, as you wouldn't need much bass. Though bass gets augmented by the bookshelf furniture and the back wall (room boundary). These days most speakers that are meant to be placed on stands are called bookshelfs. But, I find this misleading, as many of this speakers you have to space far from the back wall and benefit by being brought towars the center of the room. That defeats the purpose of the bookshelf furniture, which 95% of the time is placed against a wall.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about, read this review of the original PSB Alpha bookshelves.
 
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FAC 33 said:
Hoping you experts can help make sure I make a good decision when buying a new set of speakers. I have a Pioneer SX-1050 that is rated at 105 WPC. At the moment my nice floorstanding Klipsch speakers are banished to the storage room, and I'm forced to use bookshelf speakers. To add to that, the space I have is tight even by bookshelf standards - I can't go with anything much taller than 12".

I've sort of zeroed in on the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1s. The size is right, price is fine, and I've owned Wharfedales in the past and been happy. However, I have two potential concerns. First, I want to make sure about matching the power correctly. The speaker specs list "suitable amplifier power" as 20-100 watts. Obviously the receiver is rated just slightly higher... will this work okay?
Click to expand...

I always want my amp to be rated higher than my speakers, I run all my speakers, one pair at a time of course, which are all two-ways with the individual woofers rated at around 60 watts, with a 200 w/c amp. This insures that it will not clip even at pretty high volume levels, meaning a pure non-distorted signal going to the speakers will be maintained, even when I turn it up. If you drive your speakers with an underpowered amp, the distortion from your amp will be more readily apparent at lower listening levels, and can be harmful to your speakers as well, should you want to crank it up.

Second, I've noted that these speakers are rear-ported. They will literally be put on a bookshelf with a wall close behind. I've read in other threads that this is not optimal. Would these be a big mistake from that standpoint?
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If you can, move them away from the way the same distance as the diameter of the port. That air should be able to move freely through the port without any "chuffing." Unfortunately, the term bookshelf has come to just distinguish the size, and not necessarily the prescribed placement. Speaker designs that are rear ported usually accommodate for that by designing the XO with the idea that the speaker will be placed away from the wall with some baffle-step equalization included in the XO, which provides an apparent attenuation to the bass to account for no wall or "infinite baffle." So when you put one of these speakers against the wall it can really attenuate the bass even more, making it boomy because it is acting more like an infinite baffle. Using a sub, as PRAudio recommended, will cover a lot of sins in using speakers in a not-so-optimal application. Then you can connect it through the speaker level connects and filter the bass frequencies out of your Wharfs and tune those frequencies through the sub's variable crossover and gain controls. That would definitely be the way to go if you can swing it. I just picked up an 8" Dayton Audio Sub when it was on sale at PE for $69, normally $89. I have been very impressed with that and us it with my little 2-ways. If fills in the low end very nicely.

Any other suggestions would definitely be welcomed - it seems hard to find something compact that gets close to the 105 watt rating of the receiver. I could potentially lay the speakers on their sides (to mitigate the height restriction), but not sure about whether that's a good idea, either. Thanks!
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I suppose you could lay them on their side, but with curved sides I wonder how stable they would be. But since you are not thinking of putting them on stands, you can't be too critical of not having optimal performance to begin with. That being said, just play around with the placement and, I realize how obvious this sounds as I am writing this, just try it out and hear how it sounds and see if you can tell the difference. They are very nice looking speakers on stands especially naked (no grills), but if that isn't going to be a possibility, what can you do?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/wharfedale-diamond-101-loudspeaker
 
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Have you heard the Wharfedale's?
IMO these are cheap nasty speakers best described as thin and tinny.
Tastes vary tho, as does hearing acuity.. but be sure.. you like the sound, before paying.
 
bare said:
Have you heard the Wharfedale's?
IMO these are cheap nasty speakers best described as thin and tinny.
Tastes vary tho, as does hearing acuity.. but be sure.. you like the sound, before paying.
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Really? The 10.1s 'tinny'? Where did you hear them? Were they broken in at all? Were they 5 feet from the rear walls?

Our tastes definitely vary but man... you are outnumbered about 300 to 1. :confused:

Having said that, I'd definitely recommend the OP try to hear the speakers he's interested in if at all possible, esp if he wants to keep they very close to the rear walls or actually on bookshelves.

Lots of other used options but on a very tight budget, the Pioneer SP-BS22s (or 41s if you can find them) would be a great choice... esp if you don't want to blast your music. My local Fry's has them in stock.
 
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Thanks for the input so far. It sounds like I am limited not as much by power handling as I am by speaker design. I'll need to avoid a rear-ported speaker because I will have virtually zero space behind the speakers. And again, I need to stay with a height of about 12" if they are going to stand upright.

Any other suggestions would be welcomed. Price is not as much a consideration as in other threads I have researched - I am willing to pay up to about $1,000 which seems to cover most of the market for speakers of this size. Right now I'm looking again at some of the Klipsch speakers - the 61s and 81s are not rear-ported, but they are a bit tall. They might have to be put on their sides. I also just read a little about the Dali Mentor Minuets - they seem to be well thought of, but so far I can't find any information on price or how to buy in the US. My impression is that they are pricey.
 
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Well, I've spent far too much time on all of this. I actually had to put together a spreadsheet in order to figure out which speakers would be small enough, without a rear port, and close on power delivery specs. Although it was tedious, it helped clear things up - there simply aren't too many speakers which fit the bill.

It has basically come down to the KEF Q100, or one of a few Dalis. Paradigm Studio 10s are in the picture, but I can't figure out if they have a rear port.

I found a Dali pricing sheet, and holy moly are they pricey. And considering the uncertainty on the rear port on the Paradigms, it looks like I'm probably going to pull the trigger on the KEFs. Unfortunately there's not much discussion on this speaker here at Audiokarma, but it seems to get generally good reviews elsewhere. No rear port, 12" tall, power delivery up to 100w. Seems to fit the bill. :thmbsp:
 
PanTerra said:
You did mean that you need to avoid a rear-ported speaker, right?
Or you could just do away with the port. Or for about the amount of the Wharfs, you could assemble better ones yourself.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=302-961
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Those speakers from PE are very nice, but IMO you can have a pair of PSB B5 for less, though I believe the Image no longer come with a front port; something to check. Don't take rear ported speakers out of your options, for example a Mordaunt-Short Aviano 1 is a great speaker with a rear port, but designed to be placed close to a rear wall. Maybe a monitor, like the DANA 630i or in the less expensive side an ARX A1b. Polk RTi A3 and A1 is another speaker that has been designed with placement close to a wall in mind; and very nice sounding. Did we talked about the Paradigm Atom?

Many options for new speakers. And, I'm sure here you will get another bunch of recommendations for your application; all of them good in their own way.
 
I hope this is a help to you; it sounds as though you've eliminated them.

I have the Wharfedale 10.1; I was disappointed with them at first. I even put them away in disgust; my son put them on his system and listened for a week.

He insisted that I give them another shot and I'm VERY happy with them.

After break-in they sound anything but thin, very detailed and the bass is surprising. They are on stands and about 7 inches from the wall, the sound stage is quite good.

My ADS L710's are on the shelf and I don't miss them one bit!!!!
 
FAC 33 said:
Thanks for the input so far. It sounds like I am limited not as much by power handling as I am by speaker design. I'll need to avoid a rear-ported speaker because I will have virtually zero space behind the speakers. And again, I need to stay with a height of about 12" if they are going to stand upright.
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Sorry!!! I was speed reading and missed that point.

They won't sound their best against the wall!!!
 
PR Audio said:
Those speakers from PE are very nice, but IMO you can have a pair of PSB B5 for less, though I believe the Image no longer come with a front port; something to check. Don't take rear ported speakers out of your options, for example a Mordaunt-Short Aviano 1 is a great speaker with a rear port, but designed to be placed close to a rear wall. Maybe a monitor, like the DANA 630i or in the less expensive side an ARX A1b. Polk RTi A3 and A1 is another speaker that has been designed with placement close to a wall in mind; and very nice sounding. Did we talked about the Paradigm Atom?

Many options for new speakers. And, I'm sure here you will get another bunch of recommendations for your application; all of them good in their own way.
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With a $1000 budget, there are going to be a lot of options. It sounds like he has to place them against the wall with no room to spare, which would make that rear port act more like an aperiodic vent, which would certainly do a number on the impedence curve. :scratch2:
 
Research the NHT Classic Two Bookshelf Speakers, a 2-way, acoustic suspension design, no ports or holes. Also the right size, 12.125x7x8.9. I haven't heard these, but own a pair of Superzeroes with subwoofer (these are really small and require the sub) as well as an NHT model 1, both of which I think sound great, nowhere near a thou but nice.

The B&W 686's also fit the bill, being front-ported and small.
 
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PanTerra said:
With a $1000 budget, there are going to be a lot of options. It sounds like he has to place them against the wall with no room to spare, which would make that rear port act more like an aperiodic vent, which would certainly do a number on the impedence curve. :scratch2:
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As we know a speaker thread for a $1K budget can go on forever...I was trying to keep it at the $500.00 range. Anyways, I get what you are saying, but keep an open mind as some speakers, even with rear ports, have been engineered to be placed close to a wall. For example, the Polk RTi A Series, has front port and a very well designed rear port. It even has a keyhole to mount them on a wall.
 
PR Audio said:
As we know a speaker thread for a $1K budget can go on forever...I was trying to keep it at the $500.00 range. Anyways, I get what you are saying, but keep an open mind as some speakers, even with rear ports, have been engineered to be placed close to a wall. For example, the Polk RTi A Series, has front port and a very well designed rear port. It even has a keyhole to mount them on a wall.
Click to expand...

Yeah, good point, and if the speakers are at $1000, he'll start wanting a better receiver.
 
FAC 33 said:
Well, I've spent far too much time on all of this. I actually had to put together a spreadsheet in order to figure out which speakers would be small enough, without a rear port, and close on power delivery specs. Although it was tedious, it helped clear things up - there simply aren't too many speakers which fit the bill.

It has basically come down to the KEF Q100, or one of a few Dalis. Paradigm Studio 10s are in the picture, but I can't figure out if they have a rear port.

I found a Dali pricing sheet, and holy moly are they pricey. And considering the uncertainty on the rear port on the Paradigms, it looks like I'm probably going to pull the trigger on the KEFs. Unfortunately there's not much discussion on this speaker here at Audiokarma, but it seems to get generally good reviews elsewhere. No rear port, 12" tall, power delivery up to 100w. Seems to fit the bill. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...
All of these candidates are great BUT I owned a pair of KEFs for a lot of years and they make some pretty fine speakers. Monitor Audio Bronze get a lot of praise for their performance. The tough part is once you've got it technically narrowed down is to find a place to audition them. Spreadsheets will only take you so far. There are some online dealers that have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee it there is no substituting a live demo or in-home audition if a local dealer has a pair they can loan you for the weekend.
 
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