Fulfilling A Dream: Altec 604-8G Shipping Damage & Assessment

[David D]

I recently purchased a pair of Altec 604-8G's that were described as tested and working. They appeared to be packed well at first, but the shipper used string to tie the drivers together face-to-face (instead of bolts) and the strings broke allowing the drivers to move around enough to tear the surround on one of the drivers. I called Great Plains Acoustics and spoke with Senty about re-coning, but he said that they did not have the material to produce replacement cones right now and did not know when they would be available.

I am waiting for a reply from the seller, but I need to know what my options are. The actual cone appears to be fine, so can the surround be replaced by itself?

 

[Nyjblbob]

The cloth surrounds are replaceable
A common issue with them
Any speaker pro can do it

 

[David D]

The cloth surrounds are replaceable
A common issue with them
Any speaker pro can do it

I'm glad to hear that! If the cones are original, I'd like to keep them that way if at all possible.

I don't have cabinets or crossovers for them yet, but I did hook them up to a biamped system with an electronic crossover to check them out. I heard some noise/distortion from the HF driver on the speaker that also has the torn surround, so I removed the diaphragm and found that it does have the tangerine phase plug, but it needs to be re-glued. I removed the diaphragm from the other speaker and it has the circumferential phase plug . I'm not sure what to do about that since I want them to match.

 

[David D]

Here's the second driver. Also, can anyone tell me if the diaphragms are original or aftermarket?

 

[bowtie427ss]

If you have the grounds to support it, return them for a refund.

If you really want to do 604's right, start with a solid matching foundation.

That said, there are others out there with mismatched(radial slit vs annular slit phase plugs) pairs of 8g's, even here on this forum that you might be able to work some sort of trade with where by you both end up with matching phase plugs.

Personally, re-coning just one of a pair of historic monitors is something i wouldn't do. Matching cones are equally as important as matching phase plugs.

There are still some respectable speaker techs left out there, and there are decent aftermarket cones available.

Just my .02 y'all understand...

Edit: one thing i would add, if the cones are original, then judging by the condition of the rest of the drivers, the cones are very tired and probably long past their usable lifespan. Same goes for surrounds, that a new generic surround will end up having the same compliance as a well used one is pretty unlikely

 

[David D]

If you have the grounds to support it, return them for a refund.

If you really want to do 604's right, start with a solid matching foundation.

That said, there are others out there with mismatched(radial slit vs annular slit phase plugs) pairs of 8g's, even here on this forum that you might be able to work some sort of trade with where by you both end up with matching phase plugs.

Personally, re-coning just one of a pair of historic monitors is something i wouldn't do. Matching cones are equally as important as matching phase plugs.

There are still some respectable speaker techs left out there, and there are decent aftermarket cones available.

Just my .02 y'all understand...

I still haven’t heard back from the seller, but returning them is an option I’ve considered. I completely agree with everything needing to match. If I end up having the damaged surround replaced, I’ll likely have the other done as well.

What I haven’t been able to determine is if the annular phase plug can be replaced with a radial/tangerine phase plug or not. I read that GPA used to do that, but I don’t know if that’s an option anymore, especially since Bill left.

 

[bowtie427ss]

What I haven’t been able to determine is if the annular phase plug can be replaced with a radial/tangerine phase plug or not.

It would require machining, de-mag and re-mag, and possibly replacement of the polepiece. It could lead to a very expensive 604-8G adventure.

There are probably less than a handful of people left that know and could perform that work besides Bill H.

The current GPA model sadly appears to specialize in out of stock and unavailable.

FWIW, the Tangerine was largely an exercise in cost reduction of the manufacturing process. There's a lot of machining involved in production of the annular phase plugs. Some Altec enthusiasts prefer the metal annular slit phase plugs, myself included.

 

[David D]

It would require machining, de-mag and re-mag, and possibly replacement of the polepiece. It could lead to a very expensive 604-8G adventure.

There are probably less than a handful of people left that know and could perform that work besides Bill H.

The current GPA model sadly appears to specialize in out of stock and unavailable.

FWIW, the Tangerine was largely an exercise in cost reduction of the manufacturing process. There's a lot of machining involved in production of the annular phase plugs. Some Altec enthusiasts prefer the metal annular slit phase plugs, myself included.

I'd appreciate some insight as to what you prefer about the sound of the annular phase plug. These are my first 604's and I my preferences may be inline with yours. From what I understand, the tangerine phase plug has a slightly different mid-upper response and an extended upper range as compared to the annular. I'm 64 and have some high frequency hearing loss from years of running live sound, but I can still perceive and appreciate an extended upper range.

 

[bowtie427ss]

I'd appreciate some insight as to what you prefer about the sound of the annular phase plug.

In all fairness the differences that i perceive are probably mostly moot at the 604's XO point.

Having used both annular and radial slit 802's in other systems, i think the annular slit phase plug is smoother at the lower end of the drivers' range. At the end of the day we're not talking about big differences.

Perhaps i'm also a bit biased in favor of the classic Altec designs, and my preference is driven a bit by homage to the 604 family of duplexes leading up to the 604-8G.

 

[Nyjblbob]

A good friend of mine has the same mismatched pair of 604 G’s
I told him to reach out to you
Good luck
Bobhorn

 

[David D]

In all fairness the differences that i perceive are probably mostly moot at the 604's XO point.

Having used both annular and radial slit 802's in other systems, i think the annular slit phase plug is smoother at the lower end of the drivers' range. At the end of the day we're not talking about big differences.

Perhaps i'm also a bit biased in favor of the classic Altec designs, and my preference is driven a bit by homage to the 604 family of duplexes leading up to the 604-8G.

I'm currently listening to Julie London's "...At Home" album through the mismatched 604's just propped up on the couch and have to say that despite the phase plug issues and no cabinets, they sound amazing! I'm not sure yet if the differences between the annular and tangerine phase plugs is enough to sway me one way or the other, but right now I think I'd be happy with a pair with either one. I'm 64 and have some hearing loss from many years of running live sound for a band, so the differences between the phase plugs are probably more subtle to me than they would have been years ago.

 

[David D]

A good friend of mine has the same mismatched pair of 604 G’s
I told him to reach out to you
Good luck
Bobhorn

Thanks Bob. I did get a message from Mike and have replied. I'm still waiting to hear back from the seller so I know what my options are.

 

[David D]

The cloth surrounds are replaceable
A common issue with them
Any speaker pro can do it

I’m in Virginia. Can you recommend anyone near or on the east coast that can do the surround replacement? I’ve had Ken Haerr (Edgewound) repair one of my JBL subs and he did a fantastic job, but the shipping is expensive to the west coast and back.

 

[fxer1982]

I recently purchased a pair of Altec 604-8G's that were described as tested and working. They appeared to be packed well at first, but the shipper used string to tie the drivers together face-to-face (instead of bolts) and the strings broke allowing the drivers to move around enough to tear the surround on one of the drivers. I called Great Plains Acoustics and spoke with Senty about re-coning, but he said that they did not have the material to produce replacement cones right now and did not know when they would be available.

I am waiting for a reply from the seller, but I need to know what my options are. The actual cone appears to be fine, so can the surround be replaced by itself?

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you can buy the glue for the right repair from under neith use you finger enough use a tooth pick to only glue the edge, wait for that to set 24 hrs once in place the next day use the cement which you can buy from speaker repair and lightly place enough both front and back you should wait a couple of days after that you will be good.. cement or glue you can fix it with out replacing just dont glue your finger to it....

 

[Nyjblbob]

You can also try Bill at Millersound
He is just a bit No of philly
I know that he says no Altec’s
But these are the G’s with the more robust
16” frames. So no issues with warped frames.
You can tell him I sent you
I know him for 35 years
Bobhorn

 

[David D]

you can buy the glue for the right repair from under neith use you finger enough use a tooth pick to only glue the edge, wait for that to set 24 hrs once in place the next day use the cement which you can buy from speaker repair and lightly place enough both front and back you should wait a couple of days after that you will be good.. cement or glue you can fix it with out replacing just dont glue your finger to it....

I discovered a tear in the surround of the second driver, so it will need repair as well. I spoke with GordonW and he is going to check the availability of the surrounds. If they're available, I'll have him do the repair. I've waited for 50 years to get a pair of 604's, so I'm hesitant to "learn" speaker repair on these .

 

[David D]

You can also try Bill at Millersound
He is just a bit No of philly
I know that he says no Altec’s
But these are the G’s with the more robust
16” frames. So no issues with warped frames.
You can tell him I sent you
I know him for 35 years
Bobhorn

Thanks Bob!

 

[Bicyclist]

Anything this good is worth a little trouble.

 

[David D]

Anything this good is worth a little trouble.

Agreed!

I have these set up on a bi-amped system propped up on a sofa (no enclosures) and they still sound amazing. I've already ordered the components to build a pair of Jeff Markwart crossovers. My listening space is limited, so the plan is to build a pair of Stonehenge III style cabinets.

As soon as @GordonW confirms he can get the parts, I'll start the process of getting them repaired.

 

[David D]

I'm happy to report that Gordon has confirmed the parts are available, and I was able to negotiate a fair refund from the seller for the shipping damage. I'm working out the details with another AK'er who also has one of each phase plug type, and if all goes well we will swap drivers and each wind up with a matched pair.