High Res through vintage receiver, Good or bad?

[charles 1973]

The audioengine B-FI seems like a good option for me , do people here like it?

That looks like a solid choice too. It gets good reviews. Its probably at least as good as the network music streamers that come in many Network AVR's and Stereo receivers. And the ones that came with my 2 recent Yamaha AVR's do a fine job. I often recommend the B-F1 to people on a tighter budget based on the reviews I've read.

According to The Master Switch the B-F1 is "One of the most affordable, effective ways to add wireless streaming to a system". And these guys have seen them all.

You also have the option of using an external DAC with it for even better sound.

 

[hjames]

I mean, network streamers don't get much cheaper than the BlueSound, so I was trying to offer some lower-cost alternative solutions since price is a concern.

Is there a reason you can't have Spotify streaming on your laptop or phone while you are studying? Any modern phone and laptop are more than capable of multi-tasking so performance shouldn't be an issue if you'd be using them as the streamer in this scenario.

Actually, I had a bluesound, sent it back, and built up a Raspberry Pi4 (under $100) and the DAC (under $100 as well) for a LOT less money -
IF you are kinda technical. It's a lot more flexible way to go.
Volumio server runs on the Raspberry Pi4 - it sees the FIOS wifi router.
You connect to Volumio with your phone, pick an album or songs to play, and it plays from the Pi via USB to the DAC,
which is connected by RCA cables to your receiver, preamp, whatever.
The DAC I'm using even shows the data rate - 192k (via Qobuz) is much higher that 44k CD playback rate.
IF the hi-Res is important to you. The AudioEngine tops out at 44k

(The Apple Airport in the picture isn't in use any more - the Apple Airport systems top out at 44k

 

[hjames]

I went through a BUNCH of different gear last year, trying to sort this out, and found a lot of it CLAIMED to be Hi-RES, but much of it wasn't.
Its a bit of a read, but some pretty smart people here chimed in and helped me figure it all out.
Thank goodness Amazon lets you return things with no Questions asked!
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...treamer-to-mac-airport-airplay-system.937757/

 

[Garret86]

How well

Actually, I had a bluesound, sent it back, and built up a Raspberry Pi4 (under $100) and the DAC (under $100 as well) for a LOT less money -
IF you are kinda technical. It's a lot more flexible way to go.
Volumio server runs on the Raspberry Pi4 - it sees the FIOS wifi router.
You connect to Volumio with your phone, pick an album or songs to play, and it plays from the Pi via USB to the DAC,
which is connected by RCA cables to your receiver, preamp, whatever.
The DAC I'm using even shows the data rate - 192k (via Qobuz) is much higher that 44k CD playback rate.
IF the hi-Res is important to you. The AudioEngine tops out at 44k

(The Apple Airport in the picture isn't in use any more - the Apple Airport systems top out at 44k
View attachment 2312431

does an airport express work ? I actually have one in my basement

 

[hjames]

How well does an airport express work ? I actually have one in my basement

Well, An Airport express is just a connector (not a tuner or a server) - you have to play FROM something -
an iPad, an iPhone, a macMini, whatever, and send it to the Airport connected to your Pioneer.

You said you didn't want to tie up your phone or your laptop ...

Frankly, the BlueNode is the easiest thing to set-up; there's a bunch of fans of that device on AK.
I'm frugal and I like to tinker with things, so I went with a more DIY approach.

 

[Orwell84]

The audioengine B-FI seems like a good option for me , do people here like it?

Buy yourself one of these

https://www.amazon.com/EarStudio-ES...b3e23&pd_rd_wg=niPdt&pd_rd_i=B078H4YD2L&psc=1


And one of these cables.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088GR2Z2...&pd_rd_r=14c5cd5a-bb86-411a-a2bc-8f418c958bb8




You will have exactly what you're after plus you'll have 30 days to return it if you want.
It can be used as a usb dac or over Bluetooth and it has an awesome app and most importantly it's dual Akm4375 dacs sound amazing.
Good luck

 

[Doug G.]

This all reminds me of, when digital audio first appeared, all the speaker manufacturers felt the need to declare their speakers "Digital Ready".



Doug

 

[Garret86]

Well, An Airport express is just a connector (not a tuner or a server) - you have to play FROM something -
an iPad, an iPhone, a macMini, whatever, and send it to the Airport connected to your Pioneer.

You said you didn't want to tie up your phone or your laptop ...

Frankly, the BlueNode is the easiest thing to set-up; there's a bunch of fans of that device on AK.
I'm frugal and I like to tinker with things, so I went with a more DIY approach.

I meant tie up in the more physical sense of being tied to a cord , how is the quality of airplay if I airplay Spotify or tidal to a airport express?

 

[HPMguy]

To the OP:

Your Bluenode is converting digital to analog, so any good amplifier will amplify that output signal to a high enough powered signal to driver speakers. Nothing at all wrong with 70's high end amplifiers or receivers, they were (and are) good quality amps. Bigger, run hotter, and use more electricity than a "modern" D-class amp, but the sound will be fine. I personally prefer slightly later amps because they are "cleaner" -- less THD, but I suspect none of us could tell the difference in a truly double blind test. You can expect the same result from any quality analogue amplifier.

The critical part of a streaming to analog system is the digital to analog converter (since it's already digital you have no control over the initial analog to digital conversion). What you are using is a good one, should produce nice clean sound without artifacts or distortion that can be heard. Hook it up to any amplifier you wish so long as it's line level input into a tape or AUX input, not the phono input.

 

[spark1]

Buy yourself one of these

https://www.amazon.com/EarStudio-ES...b3e23&pd_rd_wg=niPdt&pd_rd_i=B078H4YD2L&psc=1
View attachment 2312437

And one of these cables.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088GR2Z2...&pd_rd_r=14c5cd5a-bb86-411a-a2bc-8f418c958bb8

View attachment 2312435


You will have exactly what you're after plus you'll have 30 days to return it if you want.
It can be used as a usb dac or over Bluetooth and it has an awesome app and most importantly it's dual Akm4375 dacs sound amazing.
Good luck

Tell me more about this, please. I see that it can be used as a USB DAC...so I guess you are suggesting he get this and stream from his PC, through this DAC, and then out to his Pioneer receiver? Or is it a streamer as well? If not, how would it meet the OP's goal of not using his PC or phone?

Thanks!

 

[Orwell84]

Tell me more about this, please. I see that it can be used as a USB DAC...so I guess you are suggesting he get this and stream from his PC, through this DAC, and then out to his Pioneer receiver? Or is it a streamer as well? If not, how would it meet the OP's goal of not using his PC or phone?

Thanks!

Yes it can be used as a wired USB dac while still controlling all of its many options and volume on your phone while sitting in your sweet spot or across the room.
I know it's not a streamer and you need a pc Mac or phone the OP seemed to drift from that requirement the last page or so.
Regardless the es100 is a great sounding device that should make the OP happy for under $100.
I have two of them my first one is into its third year of 6 to 10 hours a day of use as a headphone amp at work and line out duty at home and in the truck without a hitch.
The developer is a genius and over the first two years added almost every option users asked for on the 429 page head fi es100 thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/

Here's some of what you can control with the app and I listen to it flat but I juiced the eq for the screen shot.

 

[spark1]

Yes it can be used as a wired USB dac while still controlling all of its many options and volume on your phone while sitting in your sweet spot or across the room.
I know it's not a streamer and you need a pc Mac or phone the OP seemed to drift from that requirement the last page or so.
Regardless the es100 is a great sounding device that should make the OP happy for under $100.
I have two of them my first one is into its third year of 6 to 10 hours a day of use as a headphone amp at work and line out duty at home and in the truck without a hitch.
The developer is a genius and over the first two years added almost every option users asked for on the 429 page head fi es100 thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/

Here's some of what you can control with the app and I listen to it flat but I juiced the eq for the screen shot.
View attachment 2312817 View attachment 2312818 View attachment 2312819 View attachment 2312820

What do you use as a source for it the truck and at home?

 

[Orwell84]

What do you use as a source for it the truck and at home?

Sometimes I use it as a usb dac from my PC but usually I use it with my Samsung s10+ over 24/96 ldac with UAPP for vinyl and cd rips or with spotify.

 

[hjames]

I meant tie up in the more physical sense of being tied to a cord , how is the quality of airplay if I airplay Spotify or tidal to a airport express?

Sound quality should be great - I mean, Spotify would be the limiting factor, since its not a LossLess source.
To get the best sound quality, you can take the optical digital signal out of the airport, feed that to an external DAC, and feed the DAC output to your Pioneer receiver.
And since you already own the Airport - its a low cost deal (only cost is the DAC you get)- what a winner!!

 

[Garret86]

Sound quality should be great - I mean, Spotify would be the limiting factor, since its not a LossLess source.
To get the best sound quality, you can take the optical digital signal out of the airport, feed that to an external DAC, and feed the DAC output to your Pioneer receiver.
And since you already own the Airport - its a low cost deal (only cost is the DAC you get)- what a winner!!

Would an external DAC be any better then the already included analog out on an airport though? And arent airports limited to 44K CD quality?

 

[hjames]

Would an external DAC be any better then the already included analog out on an airport though? And arent airports limited to 44K CD quality?

One question - are you using the free Spotify, or the paid subscription service?
And yes, Airplay is limited to 44k - but if you are using Spotify, you are not getting anything better.
At least not now. IF spotify goes hiRes, THEN you can worry about hiRes.
I was pretty sure I could hear a difference in quality even with using a cheap FIIO DAC
(Under $20, but you'll need a USB wallwart for power and an Apple style Toslink optical cable)
https://smile.amazon.com/FosPower-Toslink-Digital-Connectors-Strain-Relief/dp/B00T8HWUVS/

https://smile.amazon.com/FiiO-D03K-Digital-Analog-Converter/dp/B009346RSS/

 

[peterp1]

Is AirPlay the same as casting (as in Chromecast Audio) where the service (e.g. Spotify, Pandora, etc) is actually running on the CCA or AirPlay device itself, or is AirPlay more like Bluetooth where the audio is relayed from the phone to the AirPlay device?

I am using the Grace Digital "Grace Link" internet tuner streamer for internet radio stations (directly on the Grace), Pandora (directly on the Grace), TuneIn (directly on Grace) and Spotify ("casted" to the Grace from my phone). I can also connect to the Grace Link via Bluetooth. The Grace phone app to control it is quite good. I have not used it for NAS/UPnP music access yet, so can't speak to that. I'm using it with an external DAC, so can't speak to how good the internal DAC is. Overall, I'm very happy with this reasonably priced streamer (https://www.amazon.com/Grace-Intern...d=1&keywords=grace+link&qid=1628791653&sr=8-1).

 

[hjames]

No - as I said in an earlier post, the Airport Express is simply an end device, and is not a server.
You send to the Airport FROM something - like an iPhone, an iPad, a MacMini or Mac computer -
and the Airport Express functions as a wifi receiver. I have a 2 ch system in my living room, a stereo system in our bedroom,
a multi-channel system in the TV room, and a small amp and speakers on the back porch.

I can send audio from the macPro in my upstairs office to a number of Airport express units around our house. Using the "Remote App" on my iPhone or iPad, I can pick a song, album, genre or playlist in iTunes on my MacPro, and pick one or more Airport units in the house to act as remote speakers.

Nowaday, I have a RaspberryPi4 microcomputer running Volumio server that can play Qobuz, Radio Paradise or a number of internet radio stations. It can act as if it was an Airport express receiver in the living room while I send songs, albums, genres, playlists to it from iTunes in my office - OR, I can connect to it via Wifi from my phone or iPad and control it directly - have it play Grateful Dead radio, Qobuz, or a number of other things.

Is AirPlay the same as casting (as in Chromecast Audio) where the service (e.g. Spotify, Pandora, etc) is actually running on the CCA or AirPlay device itself, or is AirPlay more like Bluetooth where the audio is relayed from the phone to the AirPlay device?

I am using the Grace Digital "Grace Link" internet tuner streamer for internet radio stations (directly on the Grace), Pandora (directly on the Grace), TuneIn (directly on Grace) and Spotify ("casted" to the Grace from my phone). I can also connect to the Grace Link via Bluetooth. The Grace phone app to control it is quite good. I have not used it for NAS/UPnP music access yet, so can't speak to that. I'm using it with an external DAC, so can't speak to how good the internal DAC is. Overall, I'm very happy with this reasonably priced streamer (https://www.amazon.com/Grace-Intern...d=1&keywords=grace+link&qid=1628791653&sr=8-1).

 

[Jflijohn]

I'm not sure if anyone is still following this thread but, here is what I'm currently doing:

qobuz (Hi-Res streaming Audio, many as high as 192 kHz 24 Bit) through an Alienware m17 R2 laptop with a Realtek sound card (good for 48 kHz 24 Bit) into a rebuilt Marantz 2275 pre-amp and then to a Mcintosh MC-2125 power amp and finally to JBL L-100 Centuries.

The digital bottleneck is the 48 kHz 24 Bit sound card (2,304 kbps) which is still 1.5 X better than CD quality and 2-3 times better than what the equivalent estimation is for vinyl (650 to 1,030 kbps depending on the turntable/ cartridge quality and calibration accuracy). I'm guessing the analog bottleneck are the L-100s however, they are in great shape with rebuilt crossovers.

I think this specific setup sounds very good however, I'm not kidding myself that it sounds better than a modern streamer to a matched amp and speakers.
I'm curious what the final digital equivalent audio output might be. I have to guess that by the time the signal works through the L-100s that its much less than 44 kHz 16 Bit.

The point of this is to evaluate qobuz Vs Spotify in a vintage system and, is it worthwhile upgrading the soundcard to handle 192 kHz 24 Bit. At this point qobuz is worthwhile however I dont believe an uopgraded sound card would be noticed.

 

[infullview]

I think this specific setup sounds very good however, I'm not kidding myself that it sounds better than a modern streamer to a matched amp and speakers.
I'm curious what the final digital equivalent audio output might be. I have to guess that by the time the signal works through the L-100s that its much less than 44 kHz 16 Bit.

Don't worry, your hearing is the ultimate bottleneck in the audio stream. At 60, you probably don't hear anything past 13 KHz (I'm 65 and mine falls off at 12KHz). Also, at this age, you have a typical notch at 4K (called a boilermakers notch). Give this a try if you are in doubt. https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ Make sure you keep the volume very low or you may damage your seakers.