Home Theatre vs Stereo Receivers/Amps

One other thing to consider: Modern AVRs (and really, all AVRs made in the last 25-30 years or so) do all their signal processing (including volume control) in the digital* realm. That's fine if you're feeding all your sources to the receiver digitally (e.g. HDMI, optical, coaxial S/PDIF), but if you're using the analog inputs, you're sending the signal through at least one additional analog/digital/analog conversion. This might not be a big deal with a higher quality AVR, but if you connect a turntable to an AVR's phono input and are hoping for a full analog experience, you're fooling yourself unless you use "pure direct" mode (which turns off all processing and substitutes an analog volume control in the left/right channels), and then you can't use your subwoofer output.

* newer receivers use 32 bit digital, so there isn't any audible quality loss when you turn the volume down
 
swechsler said:
One other thing to consider: Modern AVRs (and really, all AVRs made in the last 25-30 years or so) do all their signal processing (including volume control) in the digital* realm. ...

* newer receivers use 32 bit digital, so there isn't any audible quality loss when you turn the volume down
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Here too blanket statements may not apply. Some, at least some pre/pros anyway, use digitally-controlled analog volume controls, e.g. something like Cirrus Logic CS3308.

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My older Anthem AVM 20 uses Cirrus Logic CS3310 digitally controlled analog volume setup.
 
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whoaru99 said:
Here too blanket statements may not apply. Some, at least some pre/pros anyway, use digitally-controlled analog volume controls, e.g. something like Cirrus Logic CS3308.
My older Anthem AVM 20 uses Cirrus Logic CS3310 digitally controlled analog volume setup.
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That's got to be at least 20 years old, though. I may have been off by a few years. Plus this was a higher end model. So I probably should have said "most" rather than "all". Would be curious to know if current Anthem models are still doing it this way.
 
swechsler said:
One other thing to consider: Modern AVRs (and really, all AVRs made in the last 25-30 years or so) do all their signal processing (including volume control) in the digital* realm. That's fine if you're feeding all your sources to the receiver digitally (e.g. HDMI, optical, coaxial S/PDIF), but if you're using the analog inputs, you're sending the signal through at least one additional analog/digital/analog conversion. This might not be a big deal with a higher quality AVR, but if you connect a turntable to an AVR's phono input and are hoping for a full analog experience, you're fooling yourself unless you use "pure direct" mode (which turns off all processing and substitutes an analog volume control in the left/right channels), and then you can't use your subwoofer output.

* newer receivers use 32 bit digital, so there isn't any audible quality loss when you turn the volume down
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This is as good of an explanation as I've seen of the "hit and miss" nature of 2-channel sound quality on AVR's. It's all over the map in my experience. I haven't dug into it nearly to the level that you and @whoaru99 in terms of looking at internals of individual AVRs/AV processors to sort it out, but I have long suspected the pre-32 bit digital volume control has been the major culprit.

Is it really the norm pure direct to bypass digital volume? That doesn't seem so easy to do. Obviuosly there are no absolutes (every brand model is different) but on older Dolby Digital units I've found the awful 2-ch sound quality has has been the norm even on direct mode.

My Krell HTS 1 5.1 had the best movie sound I ever heard, even to this day 20 years later, but 2-channel music was unlistenable. I don't think it even had a pure direct button. The Sunfire Theater Grand IV that replaced it did have a direct button , but 2-channel audio still sounded awful (not as bad a the HTS, but way worse than the 2-channel sound quality of the "1/4th the price" Emotiva UMC-200 that replaced it).
 
I have never been able to get music to sound good through an AVR. Clear yes, a little midrange.. sure. Zero bass, had to use a sub.

Mind you.. have NAD, Marantz, and Integra AVRs I am curious how they would sound as a preamp.. and with my CV's..

I used my NAD for 10 years before I unplugged it and went to a soundbar system lol..

Got sick of that and got what I have now.. I can enjoy music again :)
 
My internet went out earlier today so I had to listen to cd's though my Sony x800m2 4k Blu-ray disc player instead of Spotify Premium, Which I thought sounded decent.

Boy was I in for a surprise. Cd's sound amazing through my Recent Yamaha RX A770 Dolby Atmos AVR driving a pair of Energy RC30 towers. All along I thought it was because an AVR is just not that good. They are, you just have to pick the right one. Yamaha seldom disappoints here.

Since I watch a fair bit of TV, a HT receiver is a no brainer in my recreation room and living room. I have a good stereo (Bryston, Reference 3A, Cambridge) in my music room that I love too, but my HT system is no slouch to be sure.

The thing with AVR's is there are so many settings and options to set, If you get one wrong, it can have a serious impact on the sound. One reason I prefer stereo amps or recievers if I only use it for music.
 
Home Theatre gear aims at Star Wars addicts. 2 ch Stereo stuff aims at people like me. It’s as simple as that :banana:
 
peterp1 said:
Is it really the norm pure direct to bypass digital volume? That doesn't seem so easy to do.
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From the minimal research that I did, I learned that some AVRs that have a true "pure direct" mode have a 2 channel analog volume control (similar to the device that @whoaru99 posted) in addition to the digital volume. Note that this is all theoretical; I don't know enough about circuitry to actually trace the circuits to determine how true it is, but it makes sense. And I suspect that cheaper AVRs skip the analog volume entirely and do everything in the digital realm, even in pure direct.
 
A couple years ago, I bought the entry level Yamaha RX-V385 5.1 receiver for my living room. My wife is a cinema fan and I figured a better sound experience would be nice. What I didn’t count on, was that I might actually like listening to music on that receiver. I listen to records on it in direct mode, we use the internal DAC for streaming and CD’s, and we even use the FM tuner. It’s a little Swiss Army knife.

I know there’s better, way better, out there. Someday I’ll have the extra space to add a dedicated two channel setup.

This doesn’t really answer the OP’s inquiry. However, there are probably at least a dozen of us on here who run all of our media, audio and video, through a single AVR.
 
AVR systems can sound quite good as long as you select the right mode. Most AVR amps have a two channel mode that bypasses all the AV DSP. I've got a mid 90's Pioneer Elite that sounds amazing in two channel mode.
 
whoaru99 said:
While it is true some multichannel amps or receivers don't do full rated power on all channels driven, it's not a universally correct statement. Some do.
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Have to say the Outlaw 7900 seems to do well with all 7 channels driven. Only had it shut down one channel after 8 hrs of continuous high level playback
 
whoaru99 said:
While it is true some multichannel amps or receivers don't do full rated power on all channels driven, it's not a universally correct statement. Some do.
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AVRs, in general, have respectable two channel output. Most higher end AVRs, both new and older, have very good two channel specs.
 
I've had several high end AVRs, including Pioneer Elite (early 2000s) and Sony ES (late 90s). they were horrible on 2-channel. The only good ones I've found for two channel were the early AVRs from the late 80's to mid 90's, when the front channels were 80-100 watts and the rear and center channels were only 20-30 watts. The newer ones had too much processing, and, even in pure direct, just sounded dry (no mids) to my ears.
 
Haven't liked the sound of the few AV receivers I've heard. From a service standpoint they tend to use big custom SMT chips that go out of production quickly, leaving you high and dry if anything goes bad. And complicated things always go bad. Expensive as they can be, I consider them throw-aways.
 
Rey1 said:
I've had several high end AVRs, including Pioneer Elite (early 2000s) and Sony ES (late 90s). they were horrible on 2-channel. The only good ones I've found for two channel were the early AVRs from the late 80's to mid 90's, when the front channels were 80-100 watts and the rear and center channels were only 20-30 watts. The newer ones had too much processing, and, even in pure direct, just sounded dry (no mids) to my ears.
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I am currently using a Denon X3500H and it's two channel output is very good. Combine this with its ability to integrate a subwoof and it has very capable two channel output. They can capably integrate a sub and many time do this better than a two channel amp can. The AKM AK4458 DAC chip it uses has been tuned well by Denon, IMO. It delivers great soundstage, very good low end performance, imaging and detail.

Also, I have had older HK, Onkyo and Denon AVRs that served very well in a 2.1 configuration. These AVRs put out plenty of clean power in a 2.1 setup. I had a Sony STR-GX69ES Pro Logic AVR and used it mostly in a two channel configuration due to the shortcomings of the Pro Logic multichannel performance. It performed well in two channel mode. It had sufficient power to drive a pair of JBL L100t3s quite well.
 
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ConradH said:
Haven't liked the sound of the few AV receivers I've heard. From a service standpoint they tend to use big custom SMT chips that go out of production quickly, leaving you high and dry if anything goes bad. And complicated things always go bad. Expensive as they can be, I consider them throw-aways.
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AVRs shouldn't be considered a repairable item. However, this said, the only one I have had an issue with is t he GX69ES I mentioned in a previous post. It had a cracked solder run that was easily repaired. IMO, overall, AVRs have been very reliable in my experience.
 
OldJBL said:
IMO, overall, AVRs have been very reliable in my experience.
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That's been my experience too, albeit most of my experience is with pre/pros or external processors rather than AVRs.

That said, there have been issues like Onkyo/Integra HDMI problems from years back that probably made some lasting impressions.
 
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