I bought some "vintage" canton speakers and now i have some issues with them..

T

thegoodnick

New Member
Hello everyone,
I recently bought two pairs of old ( mid eighties ) Canton bookshelf speakers , namely models Fonum 60 and GLX 200.
They are very simillar , both models being three way with midrange and tweeter domes, and crossover points of
900 hz and 4500 hz.
Soundwise they are not bad but harsh and fatiguing in upper treble and highs , to the point where i had to cover the tweeters.
That led me to check them more thoroughly with feeding them test tones and listening through stethoscope, which showed that
tweeters are audible as early as 1,2khz and for midranges it's around 600 hz and they play till the end of my audible spectrum.
For example tweeters are almost as loud as midranges at 2 khz but then midranges get significantly quieter than tweeters at 6 khz but they still play well
over 10 khz .
Is that very gradual fading in and out of speakers normal or should they be dead silent at lets say ( im guessing here ) 200 hz above crossover points ?
I also checked my other old speakers like Technics SB-CS7,DENON SC-350S and they are no better, and even my kef cresta 2 from 1999 has tweeter playing from 2 khz and midfoofer up to 5 khz , with crossover point ( according to specs ) being 3 khz.
Should i recap them all ? The crossovers look normal upon visual inspection but i could not find all capacitors specs on them,how would i know what capacitors to use ?
 
Register to hide this ad
Many here use Dayton Poly Caps (Parts Express) and are happy with them. They're inexpensive too.

From what little I could find, these look to have a metal dome tweeter. Is that correct? If so, that may be the source of the harsh and fatiguing sound (to your ears). Some people love metal domes. My ears can't tolerate them.
 
Nope they are all soft domes , here are crossovers photos , unfortunately capacitors on them do not always state the capacitance and voltage values.

fonum.JPG glx.JPG
 
Thanks , parts numbers are correct , but are you sure that the same capacitor number in different speaker models corresponds to the same capacitance? I ask because that 3690 capacitor looks different in glx model ( yellow,shorter) than in fonum ( pink, slightly thinner and longer).
Also would those Dayton polypropylene caps be an ok replacements for these?
 
The cap part numbers/capacitance will be the same across all Canton models. Canton mainly used 2 different suppliers for caps, Wego (red/pink) and another who's name escapes me at the moment (yellow/orange).
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/canton-speaker-capacitor-reference-thread.740362/

I normally replace the tweeter and upper end midrange caps with film caps. I can't comment on the Dayton caps, the postage cost is too high for them to be practical over here. I mostly use Jantzen MKP and Monacor MKT because I can find them for reasonable prices over here.

I was going to suggest using film caps but didn't because you stated that the speakers were already harsh to your ears.

Whatever caps you decide to go with I highly recommend re-soldering each and every connection. Not just a touch-up but de-solder, clean with acetone and re-solder. It can make a serious difference.

Your speakers should have 2nd order crossovers, so, 12db/octave drop-off for each driver at the crossover points.

Cheers,
James
 
I want to draw a schematics of these crossovers but have troubles reading them, what i draw makes no sense as far as crossover design goes.
Can somebody give me some tips how to read this or link me resources that deal with it ?
Apart from recapping i want to try to change resistors values before the tweeters to attenuate them more ( in a l-pad mode ) but i need to know which ones are which.
fonum.JPG fonum2 — copy.JPG fonum3.JPG
 
Ok, since no one was willing to help i looked at this once again and i think i got it right this time. This is what i came up with , please someone confirm
if this is correct.


.crossover.JPG
 
rickb119 said:
From what little I could find, these look to have a metal dome tweeter. Is that correct? If so, that may be the source of the harsh and fatiguing sound (to your ears). Some people love metal domes. My ears can't tolerate them.
Click to expand...

Me too. Got rid of every JBL speaker due to those metal domes. Fun for about 5 minutes.

thegoodnick said:
Bad forum , no help
Click to expand...

Hey there, fella. We are always here to help, but it doesn't mean you'll get your answer immediately, and especially with an obscure speaker that is 40 years old.

A measure of patience and tact goes a long way. I hope you get the answers you need, and WELCOME TO AUDIOKARMA!!!
 
Ok Dad , i will behave ...
I was under impression that the ability to read simple crossover isn't as obscure as my speaker itself, on a forum where most users are keen on 40 year old vintage gear.
 
thegoodnick said:
Ok Dad , i will behave ...
I was under impression that the ability to read simple crossover isn't as obscure as my speaker itself, on a forum where most users are keen on 40 year old vintage gear.
Click to expand...

Nothing about your question is difficult. It's the impertinence of how you asked. Let me ask you this another way - do you feel you've been civil in requesting this knowledge?

Perhaps you missed our number 1 rule around here - ALL AUDIO, NO ATTITUDE.

I offer a bit of advice, and an olive branch, and you reply with more thinly-veiled sarcasm and general smart-assery.

Not a great start for you, in my opinion. Still hope you get your answer, but I'm out of this one.
 
The problem isn't being unwilling to help but rather not having the time. Sometimes real life gets in the way and keeps me from spending all of my time here.

I don't have a schematic for the Fonum 60 and don't have the time at this time to study the photos to make one.

Write an email to "kundendienst@canton.de" and ask for Lukas. Tell him that you are looking for schematics for your speakers and ask nicely if he has them. If it's available he is usually very good about being helpful, but for models before ca 1990 they often don't have the schematics any longer. And I believe that your Fonum 60 was made between 1984 to 1985, the GLX 200 between 1983 and 1988. Lukas is also usually pretty busy and may need a few days to answer, so you will need to have a little patience.

Other than that, if I have time on the coming weekend I'll take a look at the photos and compare to the provisional drawings that you posted. But I can't make any promises, I simply have a lot of things happening here at the moment that require my time.

Cheers,
James
 
thegoodnick said:
Bad forum , no help
Click to expand...

Methinks your expectations are very high.

thegoodnick said:
Ok Dad , i will behave ...
I was under impression that the ability to read simple crossover isn't as obscure as my speaker itself, on a forum where most users are keen on 40 year old vintage gear.
Click to expand...

With a better attitude and less snark, members would be more likely to go out of their way to help.

Creating a schematic from a PCB crossover is sometimes difficult and very often time consuming. It is even more difficult when trying to do so from pictures, particularly when the pictures are of poor quality and do not show all details clearly.

Oftentimes, the best person to create a schematic is the person holding the PCB in their hand.

I cannot confirm your schematic. First, the labels of the driver wires are not clearly shown on the pics (I can guess, but better pictures would eliminate guessing). The pictures are of poor quality. The middle picture appears to have some green writing, but I cannot read it. Also, portions of the traces are covered with what looks like a felt washer.
 
I did bigger writings because the old ones might be not distinct enough, as for speaker cables T+ and- are for bass , M+ and - for midrange , and H+ and - for tweeter . I hope everything is clear and now that the topic got some attention somebody who actually knows something about crossover will see this and help me . Please no more remarks from the good manners police , peace to all.fonum2 — copy2.JPG
 
Manners. Now there's something that's growing to be a thing of the past. My grandparents always taught me that manners will take you far. I live by that. This day and age...not so much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom