Is FM Radio Considered A "High-Fidelity" Medium

Never confuse numbers with music.

I'm sittin' here, 10 miles outside of NYC, with a $15 RatShack omnidirectional turnstile antenna, feeding WQXR to my recently aligned 30+ year old Marantz 2270, which is driving Sennheiser 580's and I'd say what I'm hearing is fer sure Hi fi.
 
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Markw said:
You obviously have never heard a clean, uncompressed FM station on a decent tuner delivered by a good antenna.

If you did, you would not be asking this question.

Comin into this thread late but, I agree with Mark. When I listen to my local NPR station, on my old Sherwood tuner it's like I'm not listening to the radio at all. Clear, quiet, cd quality without the digital nastys.
 
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Well if it doesn't reproduce the Infrasonic range it isn't HI FI. The lights need to dim and the AMP needs to cook before I'm happy. Besides 80 to 100 DB bass is , well just too darn cool...........Having said that If FM doesn't go past 15 Khz it's no big deal.
 
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CD music versus FM radio audio; why no more classical FM in Lake County?

In my area, I get most of the FM stations from Cleveland fairly well on all my radios. However, the programming on almost all but the NPR stations (I can get two, one being a translator for an NPR affiliate 70 miles south of here, the other being the NPR affiliate in Cleveland) is...well, I don't want to say terrible, but I've heard better. The point is, I don't listen to FM much anymore since I recently ripped many of my CDs onto my computer's hard drive. I have the computer's sound card hooked into the aux inputs of my stereo and use MusicMatch Jukebox Plus software to organize the files into playlists, as well as using the volume leveling function to even out the variations in level between tracks. Another advantage of MM+ is it converts the tracks on CDs to MP3 files, which are supposed to be much higher fidelity than standard CD recording techniques produce; however, having less than perfect hearing, I honestly cannot tell the difference between standard CD encoding and MP3. To me, the sound of FM radio and that of CDs, either with standard digital encoding or MP3, are one and the same.

The other thing I don't like about FM radio in this area (northeastern Ohio) is that there is hardly any variety of music anymore--most stations here play rock or some variation of it. There are two country stations I can hear here, but other than that, nothing but rock. Cleveland had a classical station for years, but the owner, for reasons I have never understood, decided about three years ago to move the station from 95.5 MHz to 104.9. I cannot hear the station now because one of the country stations is on 104.7--just 0.2 MHz down the dial--which neatly cuts out the classical station all across Lake County, where I live. The station has an arrangement with a small AM station in the next town south of me (5 miles away) to have that station simulcast its programming so residents of my county can hear it. However, I don't think AM radio is suited for broadcasting classical as the fidelity of most AM stations is far too poor; besides, few AM stations broadcast in AM stereo these days. Honestly, what hard-core classical-music fan with an elaborate stereo installation wants to listen to Beethoven's symphonies (for example) in mono? Witness what happened in New York City recently with its WQXR and WQXR-FM stations. For years the AM simulcast the FM (AM 50kW on 1560, FM 96.3), but several years ago the AM station changed its calls to WQEW and format to Radio Disney. The reason, I think, was just what I mentioned above--WQXR's current owners may not have thought that AM radio was good enough, fidelity-wise, for classical music; that or else they found that more people were listening to classical over WQXR-FM than the AM, so the next logical step was to change then-WQXR-AM's format to something more folks would listen to, while leaving the FM as it is.

Speaking of "leaving the FM as it is", I cannot for the life of me understand, as I said above, why Cleveland's classical FM was moved to a frequency just 0.2 MHz away from a powerful station which is heard well all through Lake and eastern Cuyahoga counties of Ohio, rather than leaving it where it was at 95.5. The station's owner (who has owned the station since it first signed on as WDGO-FM in 1962) either does not seem to realize or does not seem to care that, by moving the transmitter 50 miles away into another county and transmitting on 104.9, he is effectively losing a large portion of his listening audience. If I were a betting man (which I'm not), I'd be willing to bet that the classical station will find itself off the air before long unless something is done to get the signal back on an FM station that can be heard all through Lake County, such as by means of using a low-power translator station located at a high point in the county. In an area such as northeastern Ohio which already has too many rock stations, that the only classical station cannot be heard in fully half the area is, IMO, downright inexcusable. After all,this sort of thing would not be tolerated for long in other, more important cities such as Detroit, Chicago, New York or Los Angeles, et al., all of which have had FM classical music stations; the owners of these stations obviously have more than enough sense not to chop up their audiences by virtue of making the stations' signals inaccessable in half the metropolitan area. What on earth is the problem in Cleveland? Is rock and roll more important to the city than serious music? Are classical-music listeners in Lake County going to have to resort to putting up big antennas and getting their classical from stations in Erie or Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania or Youngstown, Ohio, getting this sort of music over the Internet or cable or, worse come to worst, buying classical CDs, bypassing radio altogether? :dunno:

BTW, I realize there are small low-power NPR stations that broadcast classical music, but the range of these stations is limited, and not all NPR affiliates play classical. The NPR station in Cleveland is a case in point. This station plays jazz all night, not classical. The other NPR affiliate 70 miles from where I live (the one I can hear only via their translator at 89.1, which is only about ten miles away) does program classical music, but again, the range of the translator is very limited. The only way one can hear that station directly is if the person lives in greater Cleveland or in the city where the transmitter is actually located (Kent, Ohio, a suburb of Akron). There are some areas which neither the translator nor the station's direct signal will reach. What are classical listeners in these areas to do? :scratch2: Oh, I suppose they can bypass radio entirely and listen to their favorite music on CDs (as I mentioned above); in fact, I understand, from reading posts in the audio forums, that some AK members don't even have FM tuners in their stereo systems, preferring instead to listen to cassettes and/or CDs. Speaking for myself, I rarely listen to local FM anymore, having ripped many of my CDs into my computer and having access to Internet and cable music channels. In this area at least, these are much better ways to get music than on FM (the computer arrangement, the CD player in my stereo, and my extensive CD/cassette library lets me listen to music of my own choosing rather than having to listen to branded-in-stone playlists on local FMs, almost all of which in Cleveland are owned by either Infinity Broadcasting or Clear Channel--both operating and programming their stations with iron hands). I wonder how I ever got along without my CDs/cassettes and cable music--these have allowed me to enjoy music again. Isn't modern technology wonderful?
 
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You obviously need a tuner with better selectivity. Which might actually be the one you have. A good high-end tuner can pick out the classical station without any problem. Just need to get a good tuner, make sure it is aligned properly, and, perhaps, put in a narrower set of filters. The matched set of filters are quite inexpensive. Set you back $10-20. And, all this assumes you have a good antenna (yagi on the roof or in the attic, at least). Will set you back another $25, or so.
 
Jeffhs said:
...Another advantage of MM+ is it converts the tracks on CDs to MP3 files, which are supposed to be much higher fidelity than standard CD recording techniques produce; however, having less than perfect hearing, I honestly cannot tell the difference between standard CD encoding and MP3.

I don't want to sound disrespectful, but a simple A/B test with a CD original and MP3 compressed version of the same, played through the same system, will reveal that MP3 is inferior, and I have had layman listeners spot the MP3 9 out of 10 times on this setup. MP3 is DEFINITELY inferior than CD since it's basically the CD track with portions of it lost in compression. MP3 is a 'lossy compression', i.e. in the compression process data is irretrievably lost, and can never be recovered. It tries to be clever about this, but even at the lowest compression settings, on some material it falls flat on it's face, producing a warbling sort of distortion. Besides, even if this wasn't the case, you cannot make an output of any audio processing be better than the input, as that would entail 'creating' information out of nothing.
Also, a computer soundcard (and that includes even some pretty high end ones) is a rather poor substitute for a decent A/D converter, and it's job is hampered by having to live in a highly magnetically and electrically noisy environment. If it adds sufficient coloration of it's own, it will be the predominant factor in determining the sound quality - and everything that passed through it, will indeed sound the same - like IT. That being said, if it works for you, who am I to complain ;)
 
Yamaha B-2 said:
You obviously need a tuner with better selectivity. Which might actually be the one you have. A good high-end tuner can pick out the classical station without any problem. Just need to get a good tuner, make sure it is aligned properly, and, perhaps, put in a narrower set of filters. And, all this assumes you have a good antenna (yagi on the roof or in the attic, at least). Will set you back another $25, or so.

Thank you for the advice. However, I think you should know a few things about my situation. One, I live in an apartment building, which automatically precludes my putting up any kind of outdoor FM or TV antenna (no one else here has such an antenna, though one of my neighbors has a satellite dish by DirecTV); the building is wired for cable. Unfortunately, the cable system in my area (Comcast) does not offer FM stereo radio service any longer (if they ever did), so I must make do with a Terk amplified FM antenna (please, no comments about the amplifier), which brings in the Cleveland FMs fairly well (except 104.9, which technically is not a Cleveland station any longer). I notice by your location that you are near Philadelphia (I think, anyhow, as KYW newsradio 1060 in Philly, which I can hear here at night, gives the weather forecast for the Jersey Shore once each hour); you probably get most of the city's FMs fairly well, with few if any problems as far as co-channel or adjacent-channel interference are concerned. Where I live is something of a near-fringe area, near the eastern edge of the coverage of most of Cleveland's FMs (located some 45 miles southwest of me in staggered locations), but the external antenna does a good job of pulling most of them in.

As to your advice on narrow filters, if I could, I'd put them in my tuner. However, I cannot do it, since my FM tuner is part of a bookshelf system (Aiwa CX-NA888 AM/FM/CD/cassette, 200 total watts). I don't know if the tuner in my system has any kind of bandwidth filters (I doubt it); I doubt as well that filters could be added to this system. My system is not junk (Aiwa is not well-known in this country, but the company has been in audio since 1951, so they know what they are doing when it comes to building high-quality compact systems) and was not cheap, but it likely isn't set up to accept modifications such as this.

The system, however, does sound very good to my ears. The other reason I have a bookshelf system, rather than an elaborate stereo system with big three-way floor-standing speakers (my system's three-ways with subwoofer are on stands I bought separately from the stereo, but the speakers themselves are rather small, the woofers only being about 7", the tweeters about 3.5", and I don't know how big the subs are) is that my one-bedroom apartment is too small for any kind of component system. I had a 5-wpc Zenith integrated stereo with 2-way, ported, floor-standing Allegro 100 speakers at my former home about five years ago, but I gave it up when I moved and bought the system I have now. Yet another problem I have in my present location is I cannot run my stereo at high volume levels, as I don't want to be disturbing my neighbors (I often play the system late at night, so I must take that into consideration).
 
I won't comment on the quality of your Aiwa other than to tell you that it is definitely capable of being modified with narrower filters. People do that to Tivoli radios and GE SuperTuners (another radio, but portable). To that end, all tuners have these filters. Some just more of them than others. If you look at the bottom of the page you will see a listing for Radio X. Mike can modify your Aiwa tuner with a set of more narrow filters, if you are so inclined.

And yes, I am about 60 miles from the major antennas in Philadelphia, which are on the west side of town. With a good tuner and yagi antenna it is easy to listen to stations that are 120+ miles distant. Most folks just don't know about the advantages of having a proper antenna and pointing it correctly. You might also check to see if you building has a sloped roof. If so, there is probably a crawl-space above the top floor ceiling. And the smallish RS yagi fits in there very nicely. I live in an oak forest, so put my antenna in my crawl space as I don't feel like putting up a 100' tower to get above the trees and am tired of the limbs taking it out on the roof. And it works very well.
 
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