Lubricating inner platter bearings Thorens 165 - how much oil?

Mono-stereo

Mono-stereo

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How much oil should I use on the platter bearing on a Thorens TD 165? Some say just apply one drop, others say a few drops and in this instruction it says the hole should be filled half way up: http://www.theanalogdept.com/things_to_check.htm
What is the recommendation?

Also when lubricating the upper and lower bearings of the motor, you just put a drop of oil near the bushings with a toothpick? On the lower bearing, you flip it over and apply where the shaft is in the middle and just turn the shaft manually until the oil gets in?
 
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As as far the motor goes, one drop top and bottom should be fine.

I second tnsilver's recommendation -- make sure that bearing is as clean as a whistle! Clean off any old oil from the bearing and from the shaft on the inner platter.

I personally use non-linting foam swabs for this cleaning task, but a q-tip will be fine; HOWEVER, if you overuse the same q-tip, it may start shedding some lint, so make sure you change the q-tip often as you are swabbing out all that old oil. You don't want to leave any debris behind in that bearing well.

Once it's clean, I also fill it up around 2/3 of the way full. I don't mind a little bit of spillage over the edge -- I usually just clean that with a Kimwipe or paper towel. I'd rather know the thing is full!

Once that's all done, give your platter the "spin test" (remove the belt, spin it up to 33rpm with your finger, and start a timer once you let go) -- let us know how long it takes your platter to come to a stop. This is one indicator of bearing "health."
 
Oh and to answer your question about the oiling the bottom of the motor shaft and whether or not you have to flip it over -- I did flip it over my TD125 when I did this, so that the oil would run down the shaft into the motor.

Obviously, one's common sense would tell them to do this BEFORE oiling the bearing and replacing the inner shaft... :thumbsup:
 
tnsilver said:
I clean the bushing (bronze well) with IPA and a Q-Tip and fill it just bellow 2/3 with light sewing machine oil. Any more than 2/3 you get spillage. No use filling it all the way. No point in flipping it upside down either. Just get the sub platter in place and give it a few seconds to sink in.
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Thanks!
The flipping over I was for lubing the motor lower bushing, inside the turntable.
 
mattking52 said:
As as far the motor goes, one drop top and bottom should be fine.

I second tnsilver's recommendation -- make sure that bearing is as clean as a whistle! Clean off any old oil from the bearing and from the shaft on the inner platter.

I personally use non-linting foam swabs for this cleaning task, but a q-tip will be fine; HOWEVER, if you overuse the same q-tip, it may start shedding some lint, so make sure you change the q-tip often as you are swabbing out all that old oil. You don't want to leave any debris behind in that bearing well.

Once it's clean, I also fill it up around 2/3 of the way full. I don't mind a little bit of spillage over the edge -- I usually just clean that with a Kimwipe or paper towel. I'd rather know the thing is full!

Once that's all done, give your platter the "spin test" (remove the belt, spin it up to 33rpm with your finger, and start a timer once you let go) -- let us know how long it takes your platter to come to a stop. This is one indicator of bearing "health."
Click to expand...

One thing I don't get - by filling 2/3 then the oil will flood over a lot right? I mean the shaft must be pushing most of the oil out when insterted (I have not inspected the construction in detail but I assume the shaft fits snugly in the hole all the way down and then there's a little space around the tip resting on than metal bottom plate) Wouldn't just add a few drops on the shaft do? I mean in other mechanical constructions the rule is often to use just a little oil. Inside engines of course it's different but to me this is just two elements that should have as little friction as possible.
 
I drop about a dime to nickel sized amount on the tip of my index finger, then coat the cleaned shaft up and down. Then I drop it in.
 
ddarch said:
I drop about a dime to nickel sized amount on the tip of my index finger, then coat the cleaned shaft up and down. Then I drop it in.
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Dave is the expert, so trust his judgment here over mine! He's helped me numerous times... good to know for the future too, as I will waste a little less oil.

I believe got the 2/3 full tip from Joel Boutreux, who used to work at the Thorens factory. His recommendation was that, and additionally to put some oil on the shaft before putting it in the well.

Obviously, the bearing can only hold so much, and any oil that won't fit will spew out of the top. When i've done it before, there's barely been any overspill at the top of the well. I can't imagine a situation in which you'd have too MUCH oil in this bearing at any given time, but I could be wrong...
 
The bearing well is not a simple hole. There are two bushings (rings) in it, those and the bottom of the well are the only parts in contact with the shaft. You do need a good bit of oil to fill the hollows that remain.

Oil is cheap and you NEVER want to risk running the bearing even partially dry, so just fill it most of the way and have a rag at hand to wipe up the excess.
 
Fair enough! His advice is pretty similar to yours in this case, though. I'm guessing his "fancy" oil is of a thicker viscosity, hence his recommendation for oiling the shaft separately. I use the same as you -- sewing machine oil -- and just happened to lube the platter shaft as well. Probably didn't need to.
 
I read this ( http://www.theanalogdept.com/things_to_check.htm ) web page and took the advice of using Phil Wood Tenacious Oil since I already had it on hand for my road bike. I used it in the bearing well of my Thorens TD 318. After about an hour or so of continuous listening, the turntable stop running. Checking the electrical connections, I found that the power supply transformer was extremely hot to the touch. Testing it with a multi-meter revealed that it was toast.

I don't know for sure but I think the Phil Wood oil may have been a little too tenacious and put undo strain on the motor causing it to draw more amps than the power supply could handle. If and when I find a new power supply, I will remove the Phil Wood oil and replace it with something lighter.
 
Man, that sucks about your power supply transformer, Malden.

When I was changing the oil in my first Thorens, I read several threads where folks said to not use 3 in 1 oil as it is can become gummy over time. Mobil One was recommended so that's what I went with. That was around five years ago (my, where has the time gone?) and everything still seems to be fine.
 
Mobil One is good, but use light viscosity: it gets far gentler treatment than a car engine. 33rpm vs 2,000 rpm, and the load is only a few pounds, not over a ton. Some people use heavy oil in the belief it fills any gap between the male and female bearing parts. I don't agree — the gap is microscopic, the heavy viscosity increases resistance, strains the motor and stretches the belt. (Read Malden's sad story above).

It's also very important to level the table, so the bearing is vertical — if the bearing-shaft is leaning to one side, it rubs against the bushings at a single point, causing wear and possibly audible rumble.

Also check the one-point tip of the bearing shaft (some older Thorens have a ball bearing), and the thrust-plate at the bottom of the well. A little wear is inevitable, but too much should be remedied. Given the age of these TTs, "too much" is quite possible. You have to use your own judgement to assess it.

And clean the pulley and the rim of the subplatter periodically — doesn't affect the bearing, just the TT's overall health and happiness.
 
Lot's of advice here! I guess I'll follow ddarch's advice for a start plus add a drop on top and bottom of the motor shaft. And use ordinary sewing machine oil which is light:)
 
bimasta said:
It's also very important to level the table, so the bearing is vertical — if the bearing-shaft is leaning to one side, it rubs against the bushings at a single point, causing wear and possibly audible rumble.
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I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Of course the TT should be level but this is not why. We're talking about a belt drive TT here. The pull of the belt towards the motor easily overrides a small amount of tilt. So yes, in practice the shaft does lean. One reason why Systemdek, Funk, and others have used arrangements with multiple pulleys, or even multiple motors.

On the other hand, there is the Well Tempered which turns the same effect into a positive by omitting most of the contact areas in the bearing except for defined points, opposing the force of the belt.
 
ranch 22b said:
I read several threads where folks said to not use 3 in 1 oil as it is can become gummy over time. Mobil One was recommended so that's what I went with.
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There are different 3 in 1 oil formulations. The basic red can is probably ill-advised for a TT, but the blue can (electric motor machine oil) works just fine--I have used it on my Linn and Duals for years. I have also used Remington gun oil (I love the smell, but then again, I love guns).

Mobile One is probably a good option (never tried it yet on a TT--only used it in cars/trucks), but I would recommend the lowest viscosity you have available--only concern would be the additives/detergents. Have also used sewing machine oil in the past, but don't recall what brand--may have been Singer that came with a couple vintage sewing machines that I refurbed.

The other funny thing is the look you get from the doctor or pharmacist when you ask for a couple needles and syringes to use for lubricating bearings/motors on a TT or tape deck, and you're not a junkie or diabetic--well maybe an "audio junkie". :)
 
Cleaned the pulley and outside of sub platter with isopropanol. Oiled the motor shaft with a tiny drop below and on top. Applied 5-6 drops inside the center hole and 2-3 drops on the shaft itself. Put it back in and it spins really smooth now. A slight whirring from the motor that I heard before is now gone. It is still a little slow in the start until it reaches correct speed but in another thread I saw that often was due to a worn out belt so I guess I'll have to buy a new one.
 
Good point on using low viscosity oil. I had forgotten that. I'm using Mobil One 5w-20 in my Thorens. I would imagine that is low enough. I decided to not worry about the additives.

The last time I had some work done by my skin doc, I was able to leave his office with a couple of syringes with needles after I explained what I would be using them for. Like you said, I did get some strange looks though. But what a great tool to have.
 
malden said:
I read this ( http://www.theanalogdept.com/things_to_check.htm ) web page and took the advice of using Phil Wood Tenacious Oil since I already had it on hand for my road bike. I used it in the bearing well of my Thorens TD 318. After about an hour or so of continuous listening, the turntable stop running. Checking the electrical connections, I found that the power supply transformer was extremely hot to the touch. Testing it with a multi-meter revealed that it was toast.
Click to expand...
What a coincidence! My TD-160 Mk-III wallwart 16VAC power supply died this week too. Out of the blue. Just like that. I dremeled it open along the seams and measured the primary winding. It was open. My TT had nothing going on with it to provoke this. These things just happen. Normal life span I guess. I'd take 30+ years for any product any day of the week if anyone can find anything like that anymore. :)
 
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