Marantz 1060 Restoration w/upgrades

[ocdecio]

I personally stay away from WIMA in the signal path. I've seen people bringing up specs, but to me they don't sound good at all.Films Marantz uses are usually excellent and I'd rather leave them alone unless you are replacing with some very exquisite boutique components. I also replace low value electrolytics in the signal path with high quality audio grade electrolytics. Again, personally.

 

[MarcD]

Thank you, ocdecio. Definitely some differences of opinion on the Wima's. Reminds me of the lyrics of a song I know...

"I was taught a month ago
To bide my time and take it slow
But then I learned just yesterday
To rush and never waste the day
Well I'm convinced the whole day long
That all I learn is always wrong
And things are true that I forget
But no one taught that to me yet"

I'm just going to have to plug and play and see what my aging ears decide sounds the best.

Thanks again, I appreciate the response.
Marc

 

[ocdecio]

Hi @MarcD - please don't take my word as any sort of authoritative position. What I am saying is based on what I found out personally in my own systems trying different combinations of components. The (yet available) RFS and RBS Silmic revealed to be most close to the original "Marantz sound" whatever one defines it to be. To me this is the essence of the hobby, and if WIMA works for other folks and make them happy I have absolutely no say in the matter.

 

[QUiKSR20]

Hi @MarcD - please don't take my word as any sort of authoritative position. What I am saying is based on what I found out personally in my own systems trying different combinations of components. The (yet available) RFS and RBS Silmic revealed to be most close to the original "Marantz sound" whatever one defines it to be. To me this is the essence of the hobby, and if WIMA works for other folks and make them happy I have absolutely no say in the matter.

Thanks for checking out the thread @ocdecio , We have chatted in the Marantz FB Group ( Daryl G ).... This is my 1060 ive been rebuilding and ran into a jam but slowly but surely im making progress & gaining experience.

 

[QUiKSR20]

Well tonight I did some work on the P700 board and made some really good progress.

- Removed H710/H712
- Removed H706/H708

H710 Tested as ( Short Circuit on base/collector ), Emitter had no reading.
H712 Tested as ( No component Detected )
H706 Tested Fine
H708 Tested as ( diode junction )

The above were all original parts and replaced with the following :

H710 - 2N3440 ( Was 2SC959 )
H712 - 2N5416 ( Was 2SA606 )

Well H704 doesnt get hot anymore, Proceeded to test the voltage of the metal casing on the 6 transistors which all look great now.

Latest Measurements -
H704 - 24.51 / H703 - 24.1
H710 - 67.42 / H709 - 67.41
H712 - 0.37 / H711 - 0.39

Going to reinstall H706 which tested fine and replace H708 (2SA562) with a KSA733C.

I think I read that if that all checks out I should be able to hook up the P700 board outside of the unit without the outputs and check for sound via headphones.

If that works good then I can re-install the new mica's / outputs and see if I can set the bias, I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[QUiKSR20]

Big update coming guys, Life / kids took over and this project was put to the back burner but I will not leave the thread hanging..
Will post tommorow and bring this thread current.

 

[iPhoneSasuke]

Nice to read about giving a new life to the old good things. I also doing the same with my Dual CV 20 and Trio TK-150. There is a question about small transistors: you've replaced the 2SC959 to 2N3440 (for example), the new one usually having a better parameters (formally), but does it affects the sound accordingly? Does higher hfe makes sounding better? Doesn't transistors with higher specs require another resistors? In my experience, replacing the original 2N5296 RCA of 60th on a new China transistors made sounding better: didn't changed the character, but made sound a little bit more transparent. Does it mean that at those years all transistors were made badly and threre's no magically good old details and tech specs with technologies are deciding? Esthetically, I would prefer the TO-1, 7 etc transistors rather than TO-92, but sounding is in priority. I also interested in a Marantz 1060 'cause it positioned as rock-orientated amp: quick & sharp (didn't check it by myself for now).

 

[QUiKSR20]

Nice to read about giving a new life to the old good things. I also doing the same with my Dual CV 20 and Trio TK-150. There is a question about small transistors: you've replaced the 2SC959 to 2N3440 (for example), the new one usually having a better parameters (formally), but does it affects the sound accordingly? Does higher hfe makes sounding better? Doesn't transistors with higher specs require another resistors? In my experience, replacing the original 2N5296 RCA of 60th on a new China transistors made sounding better: didn't changed the character, but made sound a little bit more transparent. Does it mean that at those years all transistors were made badly and threre's no magically good old details and tech specs with technologies are deciding? Esthetically, I would prefer the TO-1, 7 etc transistors rather than TO-92, but sounding is in priority. I also interested in a Marantz 1060 'cause it positioned as rock-orientated amp: quick & sharp (didn't check it by myself for now).

Hello @iPhoneSasuke thanks for your reply, To be honest im a little new to the repair side and didnt pick the replacement parts. I relied on a fellow user with way more experience in the field ( @Leestereo ) to assist with the parts replacements.. He may be able to chime in, What I can tell you that this 1060 sounds noticeably better than
it did and it never sounded bad.

 

[QUiKSR20]

Hey guys just wanted to post an update, I know its been a while.. I have two young kids and once summer hit I had minimal time to work on this project.
I was pretty bummed that I made it this far, Had 90% of the unit done and just couldnt figure out the last bit. I guess I shouldn't beat myself up since im
new to repairs. I reached out to @patfont who is local to me and had him take a look.

Right off the bat he saw a few minor things such as a lifted pad ( was making contact still ), He fixed that and re-flowed a few spots but it still wasn't showing
any voltage when we went to adjust the bias. Hmmm, Time for a deeper dive!

He removed H718 diode which looked a little suspect and it pretty much fell apart, This was replaced with a good NOS part, I replaced H708 with a modern alternative
but he had a good original part which he installed. When testing H712 it was hit or miss so this part was flakey as well. Visually he also stated that that R746/732/734/738
looked pretty bad. He replaced those as well as their counter parts on the other channel. ( Used Vishay Dale )

All in all he replaced, 2 transistors, the broken diode and 8 resistors, He also replaced the 4 emitter resistors to be safe.

Parts Replaced in RED ( green = original recap parts ) -



P700 Completed -



Fresh insulator pads & grease -



Powered up on the DBT and we re-checked the bias, WHOLLY CRAP!!! Can it be!!!!! Set the Bias, Removed from DBT and re-adjusted.



The board has been repaired and its working perfect.... Im gonna chalk this up as a board thats been worked on / stressed prior to me as well as me being
new to the repair game, This is my first full restoration ever. There were no solder bridges, no major faults on my part etc. Just a lack of experience and old
parts with previous work. I cant thank all you guys enough esp @Leestereo & @patfont you guys went above and beyond to help me and ultimately got this board working..

The P700 board has been completed and this Restoration is finished!, I wanted to include some pictures of this unit in its final form.

Fully Assembled -



From the bottom with new filter capacitor wiring -



Small clip of my first test using the internal amp w/ some spare speakers ( Canton Fonum 250's ) -

All I can say is WOW!!!! I am far from a "Just Re-Cap Everything Person " but hearing is believing! This 1060 sounded good before and sounds way better now.
Testing it back to back with my original 2235 ( in pre-amp mode with same external amp ) sounds vastly superior. Power on is soft without much of a thump
at all when using the internal amp and zero thump when using an external amp, With no source playing you can move the volume all the way up with zero
hiss / noise / static etc..

All cleaned up & moved to its permanent spot ( enjoying a cold one and some tunes )



I am currently using it to power a Hafler XL-280 w/ ADS L810s and it sounds really good. Having completed this project I have gained a ton of experience
and look fwd to another project down the road, This one however will be staying in my collection.

Next up will be a clean / new wood case!

 

[iPhoneSasuke]

My congratulations to you. It's the best way when you doing smth and it improves sounding. I've read that you replaced some parts but you didn't say how to diagnose or to find broken parts. You've unsolder the parts, measured 'em and saw that they're out of parameters or just replaced for lucky? If you're measures suspicious parts and found deviations it's clear. And much more difficult if measurements are Ok but part doesn't works.

 

[QUiKSR20]

My congratulations to you. It's the best way when you doing smth and it improves sounding. I've read that you replaced some parts but you didn't say how to diagnose or to find broken parts. You've unsolder the parts, measured 'em and saw that they're out of parameters or just replaced for lucky? If you're measures suspicious parts and found deviations it's clear. And much more difficult if measurements are Ok but part doesn't works.

I just worked with a tech who is very familiar with Marantz 1060's, This was a working unit so all I did was the common refresh that many have done with proven success.

 

[iPhoneSasuke]

worked with a tech who is very familiar with

Understood. But have you tested unsoldered components? It's clear that all we aimed to the result, but I wish to understand it deeply: a) components are out of their specs, should be replaced, b) components are in condition by measurements but in the amp works badly. You're very lucky that you have a men who knows that amp well, but, I guess you'll agree, if you would not have, you would have to diagnose the apm somehow — my interest is in an algorithm. After 2nd wave of recap of Kenwood TK-150 I've got a trouble due to mistakes during assembling. I've been working on these amp about a week. Resolved soldering mistakes, replaced 4 transistors. For now it works, but not in both channels as I wished, but the voltages on checkpoint looks the same and fit to service-manual. Maybe I have to replace additional transistors of resistors, but for now I'm tired to disassembling, unsoldering, soldering and assembling again and again.

 

[QUiKSR20]

Understood. But have you tested unsoldered components? It's clear that all we aimed to the result, but I wish to understand it deeply: a) components are out of their specs, should be replaced, b) components are in condition by measurements but in the amp works badly. You're very lucky that you have a men who knows that amp well, but, I guess you'll agree, if you would not have, you would have to diagnose the apm somehow — my interest is in an algorithm. After 2nd wave of recap of Kenwood TK-150 I've got a trouble due to mistakes during assembling. I've been working on these amp about a week. Resolved soldering mistakes, replaced 4 transistors. For now it works, but not in both channels as I wished, but the voltages on checkpoint looks the same and fit to service-manual. Maybe I have to replace additional transistors of resistors, but for now I'm tired to disassembling, unsoldering, soldering and assembling again and again.

Theres certain known bad transistors that should be replaced but for the most part they either work or dont work, Capacitors on the other hand have a shelf life per the MFR ( I only replaced capaciators + broken parts ).

 

[Lavane]

Hey guys just wanted to post an update, I know its been a while.. I have two young kids and once summer hit I had minimal time to work on this project.
I was pretty bummed that I made it this far, Had 90% of the unit done and just couldnt figure out the last bit. I guess I shouldn't beat myself up since im
new to repairs. I reached out to @patfont who is local to me and had him take a look.

Right off the bat he saw a few minor things such as a lifted pad ( was making contact still ), He fixed that and re-flowed a few spots but it still wasn't showing
any voltage when we went to adjust the bias. Hmmm, Time for a deeper dive!

He removed H718 diode which looked a little suspect and it pretty much fell apart, This was replaced with a good NOS part, I replaced H708 with a modern alternative
but he had a good original part which he installed. When testing H712 it was hit or miss so this part was flakey as well. Visually he also stated that that R746/732/734/738
looked pretty bad. He replaced those as well as their counter parts on the other channel. ( Used Vishay Dale )

All in all he replaced, 2 transistors, the broken diode and 8 resistors, He also replaced the 4 emitter resistors to be safe.

Parts Replaced in RED ( green = original recap parts ) -

View attachment 2961801

P700 Completed -

View attachment 2961772

Fresh insulator pads & grease -

View attachment 2961748

Powered up on the DBT and we re-checked the bias, WHOLLY CRAP!!! Can it be!!!!! Set the Bias, Removed from DBT and re-adjusted.

View attachment 2961773

The board has been repaired and its working perfect.... Im gonna chalk this up as a board thats been worked on / stressed prior to me as well as me being
new to the repair game, This is my first full restoration ever. There were no solder bridges, no major faults on my part etc. Just a lack of experience and old
parts with previous work. I cant thank all you guys enough esp @Leestereo & @patfont you guys went above and beyond to help me and ultimately got this board working..

The P700 board has been completed and this Restoration is finished!, I wanted to include some pictures of this unit in its final form.

Fully Assembled -

View attachment 2961739

From the bottom with new filter capacitor wiring -

View attachment 2961742

Small clip of my first test using the internal amp w/ some spare speakers ( Canton Fonum 200's ) -

All I can say is WOW!!!! I am far from a "Just Re-Cap Everything Person " but hearing is believing! This 1060 sounded good before and sounds way better now.
Testing it back to back with my original 2235 ( in pre-amp mode with same external amp ) sounds vastly superior. Power on is soft without much of a thump
at all when using the internal amp and zero thump when using an external amp, With no source playing you can move the volume all the way up with zero
hiss / noise / static etc..

All cleaned up & moved to its permanent spot ( enjoying a cold one and some tunes )

View attachment 2961752

I am currently using it to power a Hafler XL-280 w/ ADS L810s and it sounds really good. Having completed this project I have gained a ton of experience
and look fwd to another project down the road, This one however will be staying in my collection.

Next up will be a clean / new wood case!

Very nice. I agree, my 1060 did sound pretty good factory stock, but after restoring it like your is done, it sounds even better. It has a clearer sound with more detail. Also upping the main and coupling cap values helped tighten up the bottom end at higher voluumes. For being the second from the bottom price wise when it comes to Marantz integrated amps, these continue to be very popular. It seems the Marantz engineers put as much thought into the lower priced equipment as they did with the the higher priced equipment. They did tend to use the same quality parts through the various products though.

 

[QUiKSR20]

Very nice. I agree, my 1060 did sound pretty good factory stock, but after restoring it like your is done, it sounds even better. It has a clearer sound with more detail. Also upping the main and coupling cap values helped tighten up the bottom end at higher voluumes. For being the second from the bottom price wise when it comes to Marantz integrated amps, these continue to be very popular. It seems the Marantz engineers put as much thought into the lower priced equipment as they did with the the higher priced equipment. They did tend to use the same quality parts through the various products though.

I completely agree! Less watts and a few less features then the larger models but still the same quality.

 

[Dom123]

I personally stay away from WIMA in the signal path. I've seen people bringing up specs, but to me they don't sound good at all.Films Marantz uses are usually excellent and I'd rather leave them alone unless you are replacing with some very exquisite boutique components. I also replace low value electrolytics in the signal path with high quality audio grade electrolytics. Again, personally.

I thought I was the only person thinking this ! I find they are too clinical sounding

I've just been working again on my Sansui 771 which I recapped last year, but was sounding too souless or bland for my liking. I just replaced all 2.2uf & 3.3uf Wimas with UFG electrolytics, but also replaced all Panasonic FC's with UPW in the PS section & UFG in the tone section. It now sounds fantastic so really happy. These are just my personnel thoughts. For sure films will induce less distortion.

My 1060 I finished restoring recently following the various AK threads is sounding really nice - the real deal. I found it was being held back by the 2SC1000 transistors (replaced with KSC1845's). The "before " & "after" sound improvement after changing these was clearly noticeable. Interestingly the Sansui 771 had a whole bunch of 2SC1000 in the tone section which I just changed out also.

Based on my good experience with the restoration of my 1060, couldn't help but buy a very cheap non working 1060 on a local second hand auction site this weekend, thinking it would be a simple fix although the power cable has been cut. Opening her up, it's easy to see someone has tried to repair it. All boards are completely original, except the P700 board which has had all transistors replaced on one channel, including the TO3 output transistors, together with a bunch of resistors. What is laughable is that the replacement transistors are so obviously fake ! The outputs on the "repaired" channel are shiny TO3's marked 2SC897 Toshiba which is a joke as I don't think Toshiba ever made 2SC897 (normally Hitachi).
Even the other replaced transistors are correctly identified as 2SA606, 2SC959, 2SC875D but with some unfathomable manufacturer's names.

So following the good advice on AK, will replace all transistors on both channels with MJ21194G (for 2SC897) plus 2N5146 (for 2SA606) and 2N3440 (for 2SC875D & 2SC959) plus the trimming resistors. The cost at mouser is 75Euros just to replace these , so using MJ21194G from Onsemi, and the remaining transitors from Central Semiconductor. Bit of a bummer, but cant see any cheaper alternatives unless I resort to ISCSEMI or CDIL transistors.....

Hopefully this will get it working. Still need to understand what caused the catastrophic failure in the first place though......

 

[Lavane]

I completely agree! Less watts and a few less features then the larger models but still the same quality.

The more efficient your speakers are, the less power you really need.
Just a couple watts pushing say around 102+ efficiency can get pretty loud.

I personally stay away from WIMA in the signal path. I've seen people bringing up specs, but to me they don't sound good at all.Films Marantz uses are usually excellent and I'd rather leave them alone unless you are replacing with some very exquisite boutique components. I also replace low value electrolytics in the signal path with high quality audio grade electrolytics. Again, personally.

I use them to replace small electrytic caps. But I do leave the stock film caps alone unless they're mylar.

 

[QUiKSR20]

The more efficient your speakers are, the less power you really need.
Just a couple watts pushing say around 102+ efficiency can get pretty loud.

100% agree, right now im using it as a preamp on my main rig which needs more power but the goal is to use the internal amp and pair it with some efficient small speakers at my small basement bar.

 

[Lavane]

100% agree, right now im using it as a preamp on my main rig which needs more power but the goal is to use the internal amp and pair it with some efficient small speakers at my small basement bar.

I've found anything around 93db should be fine unless your looking to rattle paintings off the wall. The 1060npushes my Imperial 6's plenty loud.
I have a Dynaco ST-35 tube amp @ 17wpc connected to the Imperials righ4 now and that little amp pushes them loud.

 

[patfont]

Sweet, the 1060 looks awesome!