MC2301 - Still a good buy ? or shall I go 611 ?

NullMind

NullMind

New Member
So, my Mcintosh journey has been MA5300 -> MA352 and now onwards to mono blocks

I have a set of Avantgarde UNO XD's horn speakers, and they are amazing, so decided to get a set of mono blocks to drive them.

I was able to find a mint C1100 pre-amplifier, but now I am undecided on the mono blocks themselves, I have the opportunity to buy either a Pair of MC2301 and go all tubes, or buy a Set of MC611 solid state

Prices are very much the same, I am more inclined towards the 2301, I just wonder since they are around since 2008 (the model, not the ones I can buy) if it's still a good system or does the newer 611's offer any major advances ?

I was all set to go all tubes, as the horns seem to work great with it, but before jumping the gun, looking for any tips/advise

Thanks

PS - Pic of existing system with the outgoing MA352 .. and yes, I need to buy proper racks !!

horns.jpg
 
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That's a difficult decision to make. My first inclination is to go with the horsepower of the MC611 monos, but you'll probably never use all of the 300W output from the MC2301. Any way to do a test drive of each?
 
Nothing like 600+ watts on 101+ Db efficient speakers :jump:
Although my friend has a pair he uses on his TOTL Charro speakers,
And the 611’s are quite special .
When I offered to bring over my JBL 4430’s, he declined.
When testing out his Charro Serendipity’s see how they handle some juice ,
It was very obvious that the power guard came on just before his speakers started to distort.
They never got Really loud. But to him it was LoL
 
If you want tubes, it’s hard to go wrong with the 2301.

Since you’re asking for opinions, … I’d go 611 in a heartbeat. Tubes can sound very good, and are in fashion currently, but you can’t beat the quiet, power, longevity, efficiency, … of Solid State. Ever wonder why there aren’t any tube TVs anymore? Tube radios? Tube computers anyone?

Sorry, I do have a couple of tube amps, but I don’t feel that tubes have any inherent sonic advantage over modern SS.
 
Your speakers are 107 dB efficient. All the amps your are talking about are grossly overkill. Now, don't get me wrong, I like excess with my stereo; however, I'd suggest a different path. Go with an MC275 - it will be more than sufficient and a heck of a lot cheaper to roll tubes if that's your thing.

You should consider a 2A3 or 300B amp also. Personally, I wouldn't consider using a solid state amp with the speakers you have.

Those are wonderful and exceptionally nice speakers that you have. I had the opportunity to hear Avantgarde speakers a few years ago and they made a lasting impression and that's saying a lot because I have rarely enjoyed horn speakers.
 
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There are a lot of very well-respected people who have said that tubes and horns have a certain special synergy, … but yeah, if they are 107dBA sensitive, it does seem that a pair of 275s in mono would be amazing and ample headroom.
 
Horns love tubes. Go tubes! I have horns and used McIntosh SS for years before I made the leap to tubes. (No real regrets except in the heat of July and August.) But with those speakers I’d only get that much power (which ain’t cheap) if you absolutely love looking at those big meters. (You could get by with SETs.) The 275, which I own, is a great amp, but the 2301 (regardless of power) is probably better. But I happen to prefer the looks of the MC3500 MKII. Also, the C1100 is a fantastic pre that really shines with McIntosh tubes. You’ll go bananas.
 
SaturationPt said:
There are a lot of very well-respected people who have said that tubes and horns have a certain special synergy, … but yeah, if they are 107dBA sensitive, it does seem that a pair of 275s in mono would be amazing and ample headroom.
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To those advising the 275 .. I agree, they are more than enough .. and that was the first plan I had, but I am able to get the 2301's for very little more, so thats what swayed me towards them vs the 275, figured since the price was close that it is worth going one step up.

The preamp will be the C1100
 
eiraved said:
That's a difficult decision to make. My first inclination is to go with the horsepower of the MC611 monos, but you'll probably never use all of the 300W output from the MC2301. Any way to do a test drive of each?
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Unfortunately I live in the Azores (islands in the middle of the Atlantic), nobody here has them, I have no way to test ... :(
 
A friend of mine has 2301's and 611's running off a newer C-22 with Coherent Audio speakers. I think the 2301's sound the best in that system. Cheers
 
Buy both pair?

People say you can’t hear specs, but to me the 2301 has 100X the THD, less than 1/10 of the dynamic headroom, worse S/N, lower damping factor, half of the rated power, higher power consumption / heat dissipation, and that’s with new factory tubes.

I know that audio is more than just the science and specifications, and that .5% distortion is what gives tubes their special sound, but I’m too obsessive to step that far back, especially knowing that this is only in the first few hundred hours (and likely after “break in”?) of new high-quality tubes as they have a degradation curve that Solid State doesn’t. I found myself sourcing expensive tubes and running an hour-meter on my tube amps, testing periodically, replacing frequently, … it’s a hobby and there’s no better ice-cream whether you like chocolate or butter-pecan (or vanilla with toppings), this is just my mindset (and the risk you take when you solicit opinions!).

Those less concerned with science aren’t good Engineers, but I’ll bet they enjoy life (and probably audio systems) more!
 
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SaturationPt said:
Buy both pair?

People say you can’t hear specs, but to me the 2301 has 100X the THD, less than 1/10 of the dynamic headroom, worse S/N, lower damping factor, half of the rated power, higher power consumption / heat dissipation, and that’s with new factory tubes.

I know that audio is more than just the science and specifications, and that .5% distortion is what gives tubes their special sound, but I’m to obsessive to step that far back, especially knowing that this is only in the first few hundred hours (and likely after “break in”?) of new high-quality tubes as they have a degradation curve that Solid State doesn’t. I found myself sourcing expensive tubes and running an hour-meter on my tube amps, testing periodically, replacing frequently, … it’s a hobby and there’s no better ice-cream whether you like chocolate or butter-pecan (or vanilla with toppings), this is just my mindset (and the risk you take when you solicit opinions!).

Those less concerned with science aren’t good Engineers, but I’ll bet they enjoy life (and probably audio systems) more!
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I cannot argue with that but the midrange sounds so good.
 
FYI The MC2301 is technically a hybrid: The input driver stage is SS; tubes are all KT88 OTs, no signal tubes as with the MC275.
 
I want to expand on my previous reply and share some additional points that are important when ultra efficient speakers are used. Tube rush, transformer hum, preamp noise, ground noise, and especially excess gain all become audible in a way that simply doesn’t happen with conventional speakers. This is why amplifier gain matters far more than amplifier power in your situation.

Simple can sometime be better just as sometimes less can be more.

The MC275 can have a real advantage over the MC2301 or MC611, but specifically the earlier versions of the MC275 that include the variable gain controls. Those older versions allow you to dial back the amplifier’s input sensitivity so the horns stay quiet and the preamp can operate in its optimal range. With high power, fixed gain amps driving extremely efficient horns, your C1100 volume control ends up stuck between the first couple of steps on the dial. That’s the least linear part of the control, and it can lead to channel imbalance, poor resolution, and the a greater possibility of audible hiss. By reducing the MC275’s gain, you can set things up so that normal listening happens with the preamp around the optimal area of its range, where it performs best and where the noise floor is lowest. The most ideal situation is to set the system so that for most of your listening, the volume control stays at or near unity gain.

Again with speakers this efficient, you will never come close to using the power of the MC2301 or MC611. One watt is already quite loud, and ten watts is 117 dB at 1 meter. The MC275 has far more usable power than you’ll ever need, and the ability to control its gain, again, on the earlier versions, makes it a far better match from a system integration standpoint. Proper gain structure, where the preamp provides most of the voltage gain and the power amp is set conservatively, results in a quieter, more natural, and more controllable system.

Before you make a decision, it might help to clarify what your actual goal is in changing amplifiers. Are you aiming for the most balanced and synergistic setup for your speakers, or are you looking for the visual impact and presence of large monoblocks?
 
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techguy0192 said:
Again with speakers this efficient, you will never come close to using the power of the MC2301 or MC611. One watt is already quite loud, and ten watts is 117 dB at 1 meter. The MC275 has far more usable power than you’ll ever need, and the ability to control its gain, again, on the earlier versions, makes it a far better match from a system integration standpoint. Proper gain structure, where the preamp provides most of the voltage gain and the power amp is set conservatively, results in a quieter, more natural, and more controllable system.
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I couldn't agree more. The compulsion to spend $$$ on oversized, back-breaking gear with capability that will never be used (with a given set of speakers in a given setup) is beyond my ability to comprehend. Professional audio reviewers never advocated it (back in the days before snake oil and all sorts of panaceas replaced integrity). My eyes roll whenever I see it done. The "headroom" arguments typically made to justify it are often grossly exaggerated. Sensibly matched equipment wins the most points with me.

End of rant. :blah:
 
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