Mcintosh MA 7900 Vs Sansui G 33.000

[Ronald.C]

Good evening fellows, I recently bought an integrated Mcintosh MA 7900, which was very difficult because I live in Brazil, but did not like the sound of it, I thought the songs have lost enough weight, the sound was weak, the bass is very dry, short, very different from my Sansui 9090DB.
Today I talked to a guy who has a friend who has a G33.000 Sansui, he would be with my Mcintosh that is new and I would pay 4k back!
What did you guys think? Worth it?
:scratch2:

 

[nosirrah]

Valuation questions belong in the "Dollars and Sense" forum.
Consider that the G will be more rare than the Mac, therefore may be more valuable, however it is also old, will need rebuilt. New caps, relays, and a general cleanup at least. Also, you must hear it before you decide. Many folks believe the big G series Sansuis are the top sounding units ever, however, some {like me} prefer the fuller, warmer characteristics of say the BA/CA 3000 amp/preamp combinations, my personal favorites include the AU 9500. Do you need the output power of the G 33k? Most times my listening levels require only a few watts....nothing near the potential of the upper end units. Are you buying for the sound or the wow factor? That G is a very impressive sight to behold.:yes:

 

[kevzep]

Good evening fellows, I recently bought an integrated Mcintosh MA 7900, which was very difficult because I live in Brazil, but did not like the sound of it, I thought the songs have lost enough weight, the sound was weak, the bass is very dry, short, very different from my Sansui 9090DB.
Today I talked to a guy who has a friend who has a G33.000 Sansui, he would be with my Mcintosh that is new and I would pay 4k back!
What did you guys think? Worth it?
:scratch2:

You've already asked this question elsewhere in the forum.......

We have already said the deal is not a good one, 33K's are rare, but very very overpriced for what they are.....That 33K is already over 30 years old, the MA7900 is a new and current model.

 

[jdwk]

You've already asked this question elsewhere in the forum.......

We have already said the deal is not a good one, 33K's are rare, but very very overpriced for what they are.....That 33K is already over 30 years old, the MA7900 is a new and current model.

you are also comparing an integrated amp to a receiver, truth be told Sansui modeled it's sound around McIntosh. you need to get a McIntosh pwer amp like a 2105 or even a 2205 and a pre amp of the same ara or thereabouts and you will forgot all about your 9090DB.


Do I hate Sansui? no. have I owned your receiver? yes, liked it very much as far as receivers go it's one of the better ones.....does it compare to the Mac gear I listed? no. things like the G3300 are collectors items and they are very rare, thats why it commands the price it does, you can do ALOT better for far less money unless you are interested in obtaining a collectors item. All Recevers are the result of compromises.

 

[JOMARK911]

you are also comparing an integrated amp to a receiver, truth be told Sansui modeled it's sound around McIntosh. you need to get a McIntosh pwer amp like a 2105 or even a 2205 and a pre amp of the same ara or thereabouts and you will forgot all about your 9090DB.


Do I hate Sansui? no. have I owned your receiver? yes, liked it very much as far as receivers go it's one of the better ones.....does it compare to the Mac gear I listed? no. things like the G3300 are collectors items and they are very rare, thats why it commands the price it does, you can do ALOT better for far less money unless you are interested in obtaining a collectors item. All Recevers are the result of compromises.

Well my friend , G 33000 is not a receiver , but rather a pre - main amp with a tuner separated , but in the same box of the preamp.
It's wrongly called a receiver , even from sansui.
Anyway SANSUI never modelled their sound around Mcintosh. Not in the tiniest bit. There is no comparison between the two of them. Mcintosh always had the output transformer burden whereas sansui never did , except for the BA 5000.
It is absolutely wrong to compare , apples to oranges.
SANSUI never competed Mcintosh directly, since Mcintosh's were different designs and inferior in sound quality. 9090db and many other SANSUI'S have nothing to envy compared to Mcintosh's.
G 33000 is a great pre- power amp with a tuner , since sansui used this way of building amps.
It surely is a rare collectors item , and a fine amp .
Now as far as personal taste , well no comment.

 

[kevzep]

you are also comparing an integrated amp to a receiver, truth be told Sansui modeled it's sound around McIntosh. you need to get a McIntosh pwer amp like a 2105 or even a 2205 and a pre amp of the same ara or thereabouts and you will forgot all about your 9090DB.


Do I hate Sansui? no. have I owned your receiver? yes, liked it very much as far as receivers go it's one of the better ones.....does it compare to the Mac gear I listed? no. things like the G3300 are collectors items and they are very rare, thats why it commands the price it does, you can do ALOT better for far less money unless you are interested in obtaining a collectors item. All Recevers are the result of compromises.

I agree with what you're saying there too.......

The MA7900 is feature packed too, it has an onboard DAC, it takes MM or MC cartridges, it has the 5 band EQ, it has a pair of balanced inputs....
It will drive far more complex speaker loads than the 33K....

I have a fair bit of Mcintosh gear and I cannot say that I have ever heard any McIntosh product sound the way the OP describes....so I think there is something wrong in the setup or the sources.....

The 33K though in my mind is not really the same as other receivers in terms of the usual compromises, the power amp has completely separate power supplies, and transformers for each channel, it is actually in two parts, and features one of the best tuners I have ever heard....second to my MR78 to be honest....
The Pre-amp has its own power supply as well, there are a lot of cool things about the 22/33K which make it a bit more than just another receiver.....

There's not a chance i would swap something new AND hand over $$ for something over 30 years old...it just makes no sense at all....

Would I swap even my C40/MC2205 for a 33K? Never.........I have owned two big G's, I know exactly what they sound like, and they really cannot hold a candle to anything I have now......

spend the 4K upgrading the McIntosh to separates? Maybe something a bit older like a C40 and MC2205....or MC300......that would be a killer combo....


and please, NOT knocking Sansui, I loved my 22K when I had it, and my G9000DB, they were great units and still are....
I still have my AU/TU999 and my G7700......they are still in use too......

 

[62caddy]

OP started two threads on this topic in the McIntosh forum alone, plus another on the Sansui forum.

I think all posters were pretty much unanimous in their condemnation of the proposed transaction for reasons of both sonics and economics, yet the OP persists in his query.

I've never understood why people solicit the opinions of others when it's clear they've already made their decision.

To the OP: If you're that badly stuck on a G33000, then go hand the guy $4K + your month old MA 7900. I think it would be a colossal mistake, but that's me.

With all due respect, you would be paying for nostalgia, cosmetics & glitz, not sonics or substance, in my view. While can certainly appreciate why collectors are attracted to monster receivers from the days of the receiver wars, it would be akin to using an antiquated muscle car versus a modern high performance car for daily driving.

Any of these are beasts with myriads of aging internals, making them bears to service, let alone ship! One little switch goes wrong - a light, a cap - anything, unless you can do it yourself, you're entrusting 80 to 100 lbs of delicate electronica in the hands of your friendly shipper, and pray it makes it both ways!

BTW & FWIW - Most Sansui aficionados claim the 9090 and 9090DB was Sansui's best sounding receiver of all time - much better than any of the G series ever were. Some claim it was one of best receivers of all time, if not THE best.

So unless you're buying strictly for aesthetic reasons, you might as well stick with your 9090 which you already like and sell the MA 7900.

 

[jdwk]

Well my friend , G 33000 is not a receiver , but rather a pre - main amp with a tuner separated , but in the same box of the preamp.
It's wrongly called a receiver , even from sansui.
Anyway SANSUI never modelled their sound around Mcintosh. Not in the tiniest bit. There is no comparison between the two of them. Mcintosh always had the output transformer burden whereas sansui never did , except for the BA 5000.
It is absolutely wrong to compare , apples to oranges.
SANSUI never competed Mcintosh directly, since Mcintosh's were different designs and inferior in sound quality. 9090db and many other SANSUI'S have nothing to envy compared to Mcintosh's.
G 33000 is a great pre- power amp with a tuner , since sansui used this way of building amps.
It surely is a rare collectors item , and a fine amp .
Now as far as personal taste , well no comment.

ctually they did and do, Sansui even has a pre amp that looks like a Mcintosh c 30 era pre amp there is even a rare sansui set of speakers that the cabs are designed after the XR 7. see the problem here is, you think I hate Sansui, I don't. It's no secret they wanted to be Mcintosh, and as for calling output transformers a "burden" all I can say is I have never heard a burden sound that good. If someone says you have to buy A MAc to beat a sansui, is that really a cut down if you think about it? I'd say thats a compliment to Sansui compared to all the other similarlly priced gear. if you call output tranformers a burden, I would bet that you may have never owned any Mac gear, I did and do own Sansui gear, heard alot of it. The problem is the sansui gear is RARER than the mac gear, so why pay what A nice BA 5000 will cost you ( read a NICE one, not one that looks hammered) when its really a Mcintosh mc 2300 and for the same money and maybe less you can get an MC 2500?

at this point the definition series is very COLLECTABLE and that factors into the price, its great gear, but the truth is you can get as good or better gear for less money.

 

[kevzep]

Well my friend , G 33000 is not a receiver , but rather a pre - main amp with a tuner separated , but in the same box of the preamp.
It's wrongly called a receiver , even from sansui.
Anyway SANSUI never modelled their sound around Mcintosh. Not in the tiniest bit. There is no comparison between the two of them. Mcintosh always had the output transformer burden whereas sansui never did , except for the BA 5000.
It is absolutely wrong to compare , apples to oranges.
SANSUI never competed Mcintosh directly, since Mcintosh's were different designs and inferior in sound quality. 9090db and many other SANSUI'S have nothing to envy compared to Mcintosh's.
G 33000 is a great pre- power amp with a tuner , since sansui used this way of built amps.
It surely is a rare collectors item , and a fine amp .
Now as far as personal taste , well no comment.

Its all good Jomark!!

Yes the 33K is not a receiver?.....But it has a tuner, preamp, power amp, thats the criteria for being a receiver is it not?

The Autoformers (auto-transformers) are not a burden on the McIntosh amplifiers if you understand what they actually do.
The frequency response of the autoformers on my MC452 is 15hz-100khz at 450watts RMS.
All McIntosh SS amps run a constant 2.1Ω on the amplifier side of the auto former, which is their optimum operating impedance. Unless of course they are a direct coupled SS amp like the MC7200 for example

There is no evidence that Sansui ever modelled anything around McIntosh, EXCEPT the BA5000 which also uses auto-transformers on its outputs.
However, that is the only similarity between the two...
The actual amplifier design is very different....as you know.....

I however do not feel it is fair to say McIntosh sound is inferior to Sansui, there is no evidence of this apart from opinion....
McIntosh is still going stronger than ever producing fine high end audio products, what's Sansui doing now?
BUT, Sansui has produced some very fine products, and I have enjoyed them too.....
How many McIntosh systems have you heard Jomark? My G22K could never hold a candle to my current Mc system.....but I suppose this is subjective in any case, but I do speak from experience of listening to both extensively....and not just one McIntosh system, but many, I have had a lot of McIntosh gear and Sansui gear...
I no longer have Sansui as my main....

My problem with this thread is comparing a MA7900 to a G33K is just silly, they are two different design philosophies, from completely different era's in Audio.....they serve different purposes in my mind....

 

[kevzep]

Ever looked inside a BA 5000?

He said the BA5000........but the only common thing about the design is the auto transformers, there is nothing else even close to being a copy of any McIntosh design in the BA5000.....

 

[kevzep]

BTW & FWIW - Most Sansui aficionados claim the 9090 and 9090DB was Sansui's best sounding receiver of all time - much better than any of the G series ever were. Some claim it was one of best receivers of all time, if not THE best.

So unless you're buying strictly for aesthetic reasons, you might as well stick with your 9090 which you already like and sell the MA 7900.

This is the key here......

I remember the shock i got when I serviced a restored 9090DB, this was when I had my G22000, I never admitted it, but to me it actually sounded noticeably better.....
It had more authority and something more solid about the sound, whilst at the same time, have the silky smooth but detailed top end....
I had no idea it was going to sound that good.....

So, they possibly are the best sounding receiver ever made, certainly the best I have heard....

So, sell the MA7900, and keep the 9090DB and be done with it, the 33K will not surpass the 9090DB.....

 

[62caddy]

Well my friend , G 33000 is not a receiver , but rather a pre - main amp with a tuner separated , but in the same box of the preamp.
It's wrongly called a receiver , even from sansui.

The Sansui G 33000 & G 22000 were receivers. That is what Sansui themselves marketed them as. Period.

They broke down into two units. So what?

If you don't have separate power cords, you don't have separates.

The reason for breakdown design was for reasons of practicality - as the size of large receivers were making installation accommodation increasingly difficult.

SANSUI never competed Mcintosh directly, since Mcintosh's were different designs and inferior in sound quality.

Opinion stated as fact. :thumbsdn:

 

[Hyperion]

Jomark and kevzep, I think you are wrong about the G33K, (and the G22K by implication) it IS a receiver - a very much enhanced and upgraded one by usual standards - but anything that is an amplifier and sports a tuner in the same box (or one of the boxes) IS a receiver.

I think it even says "receiver" on the front panel, so are you saying Sansui is/was wrong?

 

[kevzep]

The Sansui G 33000 & G 22000 were receivers. That is what Sansui themselves marketed them as. Period.

They broke down into two units. So what? So if Pioneer, Technics, Marantz and the rest did the same, would they cease to be receivers too?

The reason for breakdown design was for reasons of practicality - as the size of large receivers were making installation accommodation increasingly difficult.

They broke down into two units because if they were one, you would never be able to lift them, it would weigh in over 50kgs (100 odd pounds)....
Which is okay, but when they are together they are quite large, so you'd never really be able to manage the large expanse at that weight.....

 

[kevzep]

Jomark and kevzep, I think you are wrong about the G33K, (and the G22K by implication) it IS a receiver - a very much enhanced and upgraded one by usual standards - but anything that is an amplifier and sports a tuner in the same box (or one of the boxes) IS a receiver.

I think it even says "receiver" on the front panel, so are you saying Sansui is/was wrong?

No you're right it is a receiver, I was typing too quickly.....hahahaha....:thmbsp:

 

[62caddy]

They broke down into two units because if they were one, you would never be able to lift them, it would weigh in over 50kgs (100 odd pounds)....
Which is okay, but when they are together they are quite large, so you'd never really be able to manage the large expanse at that weight.....

I think Sansui even cited the convenience of the design in product literature.

 

[Hyperion]

The balance of the World is restored - thank goodness.

And going back to the OP's point, (if I read correctly). I don't think I'd ever be swapping a new MA7900 +cash for anything vintage. (and I haven't even heard one ).

 

[jdwk]

He said the BA5000........but the only common thing about the design is the auto transformers, there is nothing else even close to being a copy of any McIntosh design in the BA5000.....

I editied the BA 5000 comment out cause I overlooked the fact that he mentioned it, but kudos for being quick on the trigger Kev zep! that was only up for like a minute!

 

[jdwk]

I editied the BA 5000 comment out cause I overlooked the fact that he mentioned it, but kudos for being quick on the trigger Kev zep! that was only up for like a minute!

oh I had a guy who would be somewhat well known to AK 'ers and he is not "on the Mcintosh side" he told me " if you really want the BA 5000 why not just get an MC 2300? they almost identical". This person makes a living refirbing tons of vintage gear, and I figured since he has worked on both more than once he knew what he was talking about.

 

[jdwk]

I think Sansui even cited the convenience of the design in product literature.

yeah and as an owner of a McIntosh MC 2500 amp that clocks in at 129lbs, you REALLY don't want to move it unless you have to.