Nagaoka mp-110 with Pioneer PL-518 antiskate situation

[onemonk909]

The other month I treated myself to a Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge. I got the MP110H, which came with the headshell, and it was pre adjusted to 49MM overhang.

I set my tracking at 1.80g on my Pioneer PL-518. I set the antiskate to around 1.5. This is how I had it for my other cartridge, an Audio Technica 152lp with aftermarket stylus. It seemed to me that the cantilever was already a little skewed when I got it, however the stylus still lined up with the arrow on the bottom of the cartridge, as seen in the photos I have attached.

I have read several complaints on here and on other forums that Nagaoka cantilevers are a little skewed. People have wondered if these are quality control issues. I am wondering if it is just the design, or if antiskate is to blame.

When I set the needle down on a non-moving platter, the headshell would shift to the right (when facing the tone arm), meaning it shifted away from the spindle. I read online that this was normal and that the antiskate would engage when on a moving platter so that the headshell would not not shift. So I kept AS at 1.5.

But I just noticed yesterday though that the headshell was still shifting slightly to the outside of the platter when placed on a moving record. I dialed the antiskate back to 0 and now it no longer shifts, per the video. Also it looks like the cantilever remains straight in the grooves when playing, however it seemed like this even when I had the antiskate at 1.5.

I have not noticed any sibilance with the 1.5 antiskate and slightly-skewed cantilever, and the only times I have gotten any skipping was when the vinyl was at fault, either a faulty pressing or junk in the grooves. So I am wondering if this situation is fine because the cantilever is not too skewed, and if it will be okay going forward to use 0 antiskate.

I'm also wondering if I need a new stylus, but this thing has less than 100 hours of use on it, so it would be a serious waste of money to have to get another one. The one thing I have not tested yet is the sound quality with the antiskate at 0.

Anyway, long story short I am curious if anyone else has a similar set up and what they have their antiskate at. I've included a video and some photos so you can see; you may notice the tiny thread that is stuck to the head of the stylus, but that is a subject for another topic!

 

[Mr Boochie]

The notch in the stylus holder is only a rough guide. Point of contact with record groove is the point which should be measured. I believe that slight movement away from the spindle is what you want, with the anti-skate dialed-in. You don't want it laying still with no outward force --- record spinning or not.

 

[onemonk909]

Thanks for the response! Very interesting - so the headshell shift is intentional? I wondered if it was just the design. So do you suggest dialing antiskate back up to 1.5? I can take some more photos so you all could let me know if it looks right...I just never noticed my headshell with the AT cart shifting like this, so assumed something was wrong with the Nagoaka!

 

[Lavane]

I never trust anti skate settings. Using a test record with a blank side or wide blank track in the middle many times shows the anti skate setting to be off with TT's I've checked with one.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Thanks for the response! Very interesting - so the headshell shift is intentional? I wondered if it was just the design. So do you suggest dialing antiskate back up to 1.5? I can take some more photos so you all could let me know if it looks right...I just never noticed my headshell with the AT cart shifting like this, so assumed something was wrong with the Nagoaka!

I don't think the shift is intentional. Just a QA issue, as you stated. Dial the anti-skate to 1.5 and listen to a record with headphones. Listen for any distortions, especially on inner groove songs. I dialed my Technics to about 1.25 anti-skate for 1.75 grams of tracking with the AT ART-7 cartridge. Seems to track the vinyl quite well. Beginning to end.

 

[onemonk909]

Okay, I messed around with the setting and now have it a little over 1, per the photo. Headshell no longer shifts away from the spindle when settling down on the revolving platter, per the video:

Listening to a record right now and it sounds fine -- no distortion or sibillance, even on inner grooves. Also included a closeup photo of the stylus while playing a record, so let me know if it looks off to any of you!

 

[marysdad]

That difference between tracking force and anti-skate is pretty close to my PL-518 set-up. I'm running a Shure 97xE with Jico SAS. Tracking at 1.45 and anti-skate right at 1.

 

[Kimsrk]

I have a different table but the same cantilever skew issues. I've gone through 5 different styluses and 2 vendors all with varying differences of skew. I'm also surprised you haven't heard any sibilance or IGD. I mean on most records I don't, but I have a couple that are atrocious. I've aligned and re-aligned to no avail.

I'm using a technics sl-1500 mk1. My VTF is 1.4 anti-skate is set around 1.1 and it tracks amazingly. Sometimes skips on one slightly scratched track if I go much above 1.1

Some examples:

 

[Kimsrk]

Dup

 

[Crab33]

I have a different table but the same cantilever skew issues. I've gone through 5 different styluses and 2 vendors all with varying differences of skew. I'm also surprised you haven't heard any sibilance or IGD. I mean on most records I don't, but I have a couple that are atrocious. I've aligned and re-aligned to no avail.

I'm using a technics sl-1500 mk1. My VTF is 1.4 anti-skate is set around 1.1 and it tracks amazingly. Sometimes skips on one slightly scratched track if I go much above 1.1

Some examples:


View attachment 2000279 View attachment 2000280 View attachment 2000281

The MP-110 shouldn't be tracked as low as 1.4g - no wonder you're experiencing sibilance. Its recommended VTF range is 1.5-2g. Usually, the perceived wisdom is to track at the mid-point or in the top half of the range. I had an MP-110 and wasn't keen on it, but found it the be sensitive to VTF, with the best sound quality achieved at 1.8 or 1.9g.

This cartridge also has a fairly fat, bonded elliptical stylus, so some sibilance is 'par for the course'. You would need to move to a fancier stylus profile to minimise sibilance, such as AT's MicroLine stylus.

 

[Kimsrk]

The MP-110 shouldn't be tracked as low as 1.4g - no wonder you're experiencing sibilance. Its recommended VTF range is 1.5-2g. Usually, the perceived wisdom is to track at the mid-point or in the top half of the range. I had an MP-110 and wasn't keen on it, but found it the be sensitive to VTF, with the best sound quality achieved at 1.8 or 1.9g.

This cartridge also has a fairly fat, bonded elliptical stylus, so some sibilance is 'par for the course'. You would need to move to a fancier stylus profile to minimise sibilance, such as AT's MicroLine stylus.

I've tried a range of VTF's with no obvious differences. I actually ended up getting the 540ML and it handles sibilance and IGD much better. But that price jump is pretty significant.

 

[Crab33]

I've tried a range of VTF's with no obvious differences. I actually ended up getting the 540ML and it handles sibilance and IGD much better. But that price jump is pretty significant.

So you've already experienced the wonders of the MicroLine stylus Yes, the price-jump is quite significant to the AT-VM540ML, even with IMO the MP-110 being over-priced for a cartridge with bonded elliptical stylus. However, there is not such a big price difference to the AT-VM95ML, also with MicroLine stylus.

 

[Kimsrk]

So you've already experienced the wonders of the MicroLine stylus Yes, the price-jump is quite significant to the AT-VM540ML, even with IMO the MP-110 being over-priced for a cartridge with bonded elliptical stylus. However, there is not such a big price difference to the AT-VM95ML, also with MicroLine stylus.

Oh yeah it's amazing. Sound quality is a significant upgrade--detail, imaging, over-all sound but it's a little bright imo. Not a deal breaker considering it's better in every other way. I thought about the 95ML but I had some extra cash burning a hole.... Yeah the more time I spend with the NAG i feel like the at 95e is probably just as good and a better bargain.

 

[Crab33]

Oh yeah it's amazing. Sound quality is a significant upgrade--detail, imaging, over-all sound but it's a little bright imo. Not a deal breaker considering it's better in every other way. I thought about the 95ML but I had some extra cash burning a hole.... Yeah the more time I spend with the NAG i feel like the at 95e is probably just as good and a better bargain.

If the AT-VM540ML is bright, it may mean that the capacitive load is too high - AT recommend a very low capacitive load of 100-200pF for all their cartridges. The AT-VM95 series is a little warmer than the AT-VM500 series.

 

[onemonk909]

Thanks for the additional responses! As for IGD, I think I must be partially IGD-deaf, as I've never really noticed it on any of my cartridges. The only times I thought I heard sibillance, it turned out to be the way the track was recorded -- like for example the last song on side 2 of Randy California's Kapt Kopter. His vocals are distorted and harsh, and being on an inner groove I figured this was definitely IGD. However it turns out the digital version sounds the same, so it's just the way the song was recorded.

As for microline stylii, I've also got the original stylus that came with the Audio Technica 152LP, which is a linear contact, but the cantilever on that one is definitely skewed (and came that way when I picked up the table this cart came with). I also don't know how much use it's had, so I got a regular elliptical aftermarket for the cart. I have played the original 152LP stylus on some lesser vinyl I wasn't worried about, and it tracked great and played well, so it might be fine.

I have to say though, I like the sound of the MP-110 the best of the three stylii I have -- and I can confirm that this stylus does reduce surface noise. I have the self-titled debut album by Spirit (back to Randy California again!), and it plays with a ton of surface noise on the 152LP. But the MP-110 completely removes the surface noise, other than a stray "tic" or "pop." Like magic!

 

[Lavane]

The MP-110 shouldn't be tracked as low as 1.4g - no wonder you're experiencing sibilance. Its recommended VTF range is 1.5-2g. Usually, the perceived wisdom is to track at the mid-point or in the top half of the range. I had an MP-110 and wasn't keen on it, but found it the be sensitive to VTF, with the best sound quality achieved at 1.8 or 1.9g.

This cartridge also has a fairly fat, bonded elliptical stylus, so some sibilance is 'par for the course'. You would need to move to a fancier stylus profile to minimise sibilance, such as AT's MicroLine stylus.

1.9 grams is perfect on my Turntable. I did try it at 1.4 grams and was not happy.

 

[BushmasterM4]

I have three Pl-518's and the ant-skate is off on all of them. One you set higher and the other two are set lower than tracking force. So the tracking dial is not accurate. Test record or visual like you did.