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need help - Yamaha R-N803D volume is incredibly low

W

wmg

New Member
Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping someone can help with some issues I have with my stereo.
I have done a few searches but haven't come across anything that seems to answer my questions.

I have a Yamaha R-N803D with Wharfedale Diamond 240 speakers. I've had them for almost two years.
The Yamaha volume starts at -80db and goes all the way up to +16db. I like to play music loud with bass, treble and loudness to the max, but I have been careful not to go too loud and set the upper limit to -2db but rarely play it up to -10db or -8db. The volume was great at first, regardless of the source, and the speakers very clear and punchy and I could hear songs clearly from outside and down the road, but over the last few months I have noticed the volume diminish, and over the last week it got dramatically worse. I can hardly hear music from outside let alone in the next room. There's no crackling, rumble or vibration from the speakers and they still sound clear but just lack volume. I tried turning the amp off and back on again, leaving it unplugged for hours etc to no avail. I also tried switching to PureDirect which bypasses Bass, Treble, Loudness and to my surprise PureDirect was actually louder, albeit not like it was when I first got it. I switched back to normal and the volume was extremely low. I also tried switching the speaker wire from A to B. It made a difference but nothing like it was when new. After a while I switched the speaker wires back to A and the volume was the same as when on B, but still not like it was when new. I also tried a few speaker analyser tests I found on youtube and the speakers seems fine - they are clear, no distortion, no rattles or crackles - they just lack volume. I took the amp for repairs and they said they played it at full volume and ran every test they could but couldn't find any faults.

So, I am wondering;
  • is something that is known to occur (with any brand amp) ?
  • what may have caused this ?
  • could it be the speakers at fault and not the amp ?
  • if it is the speakers why can't I hear any other tell tale signs like distortion, etc ?
  • what questions should I ask the repair shop about their testing methods ?
thanks in advance
 
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Tough one. If the shop said it worked OK, then its probably OK. However, you can ask how they tested it. Did they listen, did they do any measurements, was the output normal? What was their source? Did they test every imput6?

You can do some of your own testing. Start to marrow down the possible faults. Do you have a friend who has some bookshelf speakers you could borrow? Try hooking these up to verify if its the speaker or the amp.

Try different inputs to see if its the cabling or the switching.
 
I am surprised something did not blow up based on you running full bass, treble, and the loudness control.
Changing the speaker wires from output A to B should not sound any different.
If the amp tested fine and the speakers are not damaged, maybe there is some other button engaged that should not be.
 
Dale A B said:
I am surprised something did not blow up based on you running full bass, treble, and the loudness control.
Changing the speaker wires from output A to B should not sound any different.
If the amp tested fine and the speakers are not damaged, maybe there is some other button engaged that should not be.
Click to expand...

Like, Muting?

Cheers,
James
 
Semanon,
Cabling hasn't changed since installed.
I tried different sources and the symptoms were the same.
The amp is still with the repair shop. They agreed to do more testing.

Dale A B
The retailer advised the amp and speaker combo would be fine well over 0db, even with Bass/Treble/Loudness at max, and for many months it was fine at the volumes I play.
I've read that 0db is the amp's normal power. -db is reducing power output while +db is increasing power output.
I've also read that other people with Yamaha and various other brands with similar volume scale describing -30db to -25db as normal talking volume and having to push their amps to -20db or -15db to get a decent volume. I know that's all subjective but I also noticed that when it was new. But my issue is the volume drop from when it was new.
If it is some sort of button or a setting I would have thought the repair shop might have picked it up fairly quickly.

Bratwurst7s
Muting seems to work fine. The sound plays when mute button is off and sound stops when mute button is pressed on. When mute button is pressed on, any adjustment to volume re-enables the sound.
 
The 803 is a stereo receiver with DSP, so if nothing done blowed up :), then maybe something in the DSP has changed or it forgot it's settings. Most DSP supports "trim" controls to adjust volume per input (not sure about the 803) -- if it has that, check the current trim levels and maybe increase them for the input you are using. If you moved the media source from one input to another, and there differences in the trim settings for those inputs, then that would definitely cause a volume increase or decrease.

Failing that, try rerunning YPAO. Have you rerun YPAO recently? I noticed when I ran mine on an Yamaha RX-A880, it was pretty random from run to run on what settings it used. In one run, it would have +0db for front/left and +4 for surround, and in another run it would have +4 for the front/left and +8 for the surrounds -- both times the volumes were equalized, but in the latter the volume would be louder for the same volume knob setting. I think the relative volume settings may have been affected by where I had the subwoofer volume set to when I ran YPAO.

The fact that Pure Direct (bypassing DSP) makes it louder supports the idea that something has changed in the DSP (trim, overall speaker levels, etc).
 
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peterp1 said:
The 803 is a stereo receiver with DSP, so if nothing done blowed up :), then maybe something in the DSP has changed or it forgot it's settings. Most DSP supports "trim" controls to adjust volume per input (not sure about the 803) -- if it has that, check the current trim levels and maybe increase them for the input you are using. If you moved the media source from one input to another, and there differences in the trim settings for those inputs, then that would definitely cause a volume increase or decrease.

Failing that, try rerunning YPAO. Have you rerun YPAO recently? I noticed when I ran mine on an Yamaha RX-A880, it was pretty random from run to run on what settings it used. In one run, it would have +0db for front/left and +4 for surround, and in another run it would have +4 for the front/left and +8 for the surrounds -- both times the volumes were equalized, but in the latter the volume would be louder for the same volume knob setting. I think the relative volume settings may have been affected by where I had the subwoofer volume set to when I ran YPAO.

The fact that Pure Direct (bypassing DSP) makes it louder supports the idea that something has changed in the DSP (trim, overall speaker levels, etc).
Click to expand...

I may have misunderstood Semanon earlier. I flipped between sources and the volume drop was the same. But I haven't swapped sources. eg: unplugging Opt1 and plugging into Opt2 etc.

I never bothered with YPAO as I thought it was more for surround sound. I've only got two speakers (L + R) and the sound in the room was fine as it was. I also understand that YPAO doesn't really make a difference over a certain volume. Is that correct?

But your point made me think, is it possible YPAO was run by accident, without the cable/microphone? Is it even possible to run it by accidentally pressing a button on the remote? or does it require scrolling through the menu on the unit itself?
 
wmg said:
I may have misunderstood Semanon earlier. I flipped between sources and the volume drop was the same. But I haven't swapped sources. eg: unplugging Opt1 and plugging into Opt2 etc.

I never bothered with YPAO as I thought it was more for surround sound. I've only got two speakers (L + R) and the sound in the room was fine as it was. I also understand that YPAO doesn't really make a difference over a certain volume. Is that correct?

But your point made me think, is it possible YPAO was run by accident, without the cable/microphone? Is it even possible to run it by accidentally pressing a button on the remote? or does it require scrolling through the menu on the unit itself?
Click to expand...

It’s likely loudness that has no impact over a certain volume level, YPAO is like an intelligent EQ and I think it is active at all volume level.

It’s pretty difficult to run the YPAO without knowing it because it plays test tones through the speakers. Probably some other setting got changed (check trim controls if they exist).

If you’re not going to use Pure Direct (bypassing DSP), I would definitely run YPAO to compensate for the room reflections. Its a 2-channel receiver, so they included YPAO for stereo music. Otherwise you’re running DSP but with kind of unknown settings. With luck, running YPAO may fix what’s wrong with the settings.
 
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Go into Music cast and make sure DSP (YPAO) is disabled. I remember someone having issues similar to yours and they said YPAO was out of wack and they said they did a complete reset to fix the volume issue.. Not sure why you would need to do that but that is what they said. The 803 has a software volume adjustment that can limit max volume. I would check that as well. Also try swapping out speakers to verify they are not the issue.

Careful running the amp wide open, especially if you have something going wrong and not sure what it is. It's safer to try to eliminate the variables above. Good luck.
 
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