Nikko TRM 40ic

Swapped the surrogate over to the Left channel and it appears to have solved the problem for that channel too...

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... except... there is a notable hum which grew worse when I applied the Fluke probe to check the voltages, negative to the chassis ground and the positive probed on the terminal block in my break-out harness.

Voltages were...

1 = 6.28 volts
2 = 0.602 volts
3 = 0.601 volts
4 = 0.026 volts
5 = 0 volts
6 = 0.805 volts
7 = 13.33 volts
8 = 18.81 volts

... practically identical to the right channel.

I checked the DC at the speaker outlets, Left was 0.003 volts, Right was 0.011... so, not alot.

Is this a symptom of one of the Transistors going bad?... it does have 2SC458's (1 in each channel) which are on the sh!t list. The remainder of the Transistors are all 2SC373 which don't appear on the list.
 
I thought about maybe going with a surface mount PCB by drawing up a Gerber File to send to PCBWAY, as I'm sure I can get the size down to the same as the original. But I've never used that kind of service before and would also need to learn how to even create the Gerber.

I've uploaded KiCad and had a go at self teaching myself how to create a Gerber file, created the schematic and footprinted it well enough (I think)...

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... but converting that into a PCB is beyond my talent at the moment, I just don't have the experience to plan out the board and route the traces, what I got looks like a dogs dinner...

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... also aware that I've used a combination of SMD and THT, I was just trying to see if I could use KiCad.

My goal eventually is to make something as small as the original modules, maybe even hollow out the originals and put them inside the casings, just for the fun of it.

But right now, I'm going to concede that I don't have the skill set for it and I'll create another neater breadboarded affair, probably with both channels on the same board and work out a way of suspending it over the function switch control rod, whilst working out a way of keeping the jumper wires from chafing on it.

Haven't looked into the left channel hum yet.
 
:lurk:Waiting for the outcome.
As to the hum, wondering if all those long wires are part of the problem. Makes sure ground connections are secure.
Is problem 50 hz (low hum) or 100 hz (raspy hum) First is usually ground related, second is not so easy to figure out. There is a capacitor on the main board which goes to pin 6 which could cause problems (oscillation and hum) if no good.
 
I did think a bit earlier if it was getting into the channel from the wires, but I did hook them up over the stub of the selector switch to try and keep them away from the rest of the board... could be though... although I'm not getting it on the right channel and those wires have just been laying there touching everything.

I swapped the surrogate back over to the right to double check it wasn't common to both... it's not... right channel is perfect.

I would say it's 50 hz as I think it's a low hum, but I've got no experience of a 100 hz hum to know. If it was ground related wouldn't it affect both channels?

The Cap at pin 6 is the 47uf 63v, yes?... I've got a peak atlas that can check that supposedly in circuit, is it still better to test out of circuit?... don't suppose it'll take more than a couple of minutes to pull it anyway and then whilst it's out I might as well put the new one in.
 
Very brief update, I'm busy changing out caps... changed out the 47uf caps mentioned above on both channels, no change to the hum... so thought 'sod it' and began changing out all of them starting with the power side and the main caps, that was a bit of a fiddle getting to the chassis mounts without stripping down more than I wanted too. Moved on to the rest of the supply caps and then began on the signal circuits. I was periodically plugging it all back in and testing for the hum as I went along so that I would know what cured it if it did... as it stands I'm about a third of the way through the cap change and the hum is still there.

One thing I have noticed with these repeated start ups is the hum only starts a few seconds after pressing the power button, which I guess is in line with main caps building up charge, I don't think this necessarily helps much with the diagnosis other than it proves whatever is the cause is downstream of the power supply (which is pretty much everything else).

Tested all the caps coming out and so far all of them are showing about double the uf they are supposed to have, ohms are all really low.
 
A couple of thoughts and questions. First, does hum increase with volume control? Does it do it with tape monitor input? A little sleuthing to make sure you're not barking up the wrong tree. If hum is constant, then you need to look at amplifier issues. If it is in tape input, then chasing the modules is not the answer. And there can be issues in grounding which affect one channel, but you are right - not many.
 
Found the problem, but more out of desperation and just poking and prodding things... I went down the workshop and ran the rig in all the different configurations noting down everything that had the hum and everything that didn't, with the intent that I would report that back here.

But then got frustrated with myself for not being able to work it out on my own, so took the nod from your good self Steve and started looking at all the grounding points, but they all seemed fine, I then started thinking about all the things I'd done up till that point that may have induced it, but really all I'd done to the left channel was pull the NA-90003 and solder in the breakout harness. Which is a relatively straight forward thing to do, but double and triple checked everything again, even reflowed a few of the joints wondering if I'd made a bad one.

It's whilst I was staring at the thing and turning it around on the bench and poking at components that my eyes fell onto the left and right channel circuit breakers and I just mashed the left one out of spite... bugger me if the hum completely disapeared and the left channel is now as good as the right.

Of course, what this now means is I'll have to pull all 3 of the circuit breakers out (2 for the channels and 1 for the mains), strip them down, clean them up and rebuild them, because this has illustrated that the time up in the loft has not served them well.

Because I'd found the cause I thought there's no reason not to get on with the re-cap, turned the desoldering gun on, let it heat up, grabbed it out of it's holster, promptly fumbled it and dropped it on the bench where if fell off the edge of the bench, swung on its cable and hose straight into the cupboard door that's under the bench... broke the whole nozzle and probe part off of the handle, which is now dangling by the probes heater cables... bugger! :eek::mad:
 
I should also say that I've used some JBweld Extreme Heat glue to stick the offending part back together, but it takes 24hrs to fully cure, so no more play time till tomorrow.
 
Update time...

All caps replaced and I swapped out the x2 2SC458's, left the x6 2SC373 in for now because I don't see them on the list of bad 'un's and it's sounds great... (that's probably gonna bite me in the @rse!)

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... all removed caps read at least 50% over, but most of them were 100+% over.

Started prototyping the new modules breadboard and its fitment into the chassis...

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... I need to re-distribute the stand-offs to bring the metal spreader plates down but leave the board up where it is, theres x3 different length stand-offs per corner, I just need to move the shortest ones up to the top between the plates and the board. I might also turn the board 90 degrees, depends on how much width on the board I need to make some neat circuits.

... and yes, I do still need to clean everything in there, I intend to do that last after I've finished messing with it and I've still got to do a re-flow on the rest of the board because some of those joints are looking a bit oxidised.

Might not be another update until Monday, I've got to work on the Landcruiser this weekend.
 
Ok... I did manage to grab some time in the workshop tonight.

Fitment of the board is done...

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... started on the circuits...

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... gotta move a resister to make room for a wire, but then just another 3 wires per side and it's ready to go in.

I just know you're gonna ask me 'why such thick wire?'...

Reason 1: It's solid copper wire, they are bent 90 degress and pushed through the board to make binding posts on the other side, all components (where possible) are wire wound around them before soldering... overkill?... maybe...

Reason 2: same thing at the harness end, I now have a post to terminate onto which I prefer.

Reason 3: It looks cool :p

Reason 4: It's the only single strand rigid wire I had...
 
I did well this weekend, got more time in the workshop then I thought I would...

Finished the circuits...

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Shortened my testing harness's considerably and used them to make the intergration harness's...

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Finalised install looks like this...

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I realise now after finishing all the soldering that I took a big risk at one point, I didn't check or test the circuits for correct function before I hardwired them in... luckily, they work perfectly and I've now listened to this amp in stereo for the first time in 40 years... and it sounds fantastic!... there is an anomally though...

I checked the DC at the speaker terminals again... left channel is at 0.003 volts... Right is at 0.160 volts... as far as I'm aware and can determine there is no adjuster in this amp for that, It's purely down to component performance... so do I have a big issue here?

Still have a list of things to do before I'll call it done...

1. Pull the circuit breakers off the back plate and see if I can clean them just by lifting them to a more accessable position, if not I'll have to dismantle them to get to the contacts.
2. The input/output jacks have got a little bit of white oxidisation on them, need to run a dremel wire wheel over them.
3. General deep clean inside the unit.
4. This amp has the ability to adjust the treble and bass individually per channel, why anybody would want to do that I have no idea, but currently they've obviously been in alignment for such a long time that the pot shafts have become so gummed up together that I couldn't adjust them seperately if I wanted to, but it bugs me that it's not functioning as it left the factory, so I'll probably be looking into that. ( I can move them if I put a bit of 'Grrrr' in my fingers )
5. Need to reattach the function selector shaft, haven't done it yet until I've cleaned it.
6. The red power button plastic is loose on it's shaft, needs a spot of glue.
7. Haven't tested the headphone socket yet.
8. Finally... a power test... not sure the workshop foundations will be able to withstand the shock and awe from the immence thundering wattage this thing puts out ( I think I'd said 18w per channel in my intro thread... I may have over estimated... more like 18 combined :D )

Why don't we make a game of it?... post your guesses of what it'll make...
 

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DC offset: it is completely controlled by the output stage and the rest of the circuits have no affect on it. The outputs are driven by a driver transformer. It depends on the positive and negative sides being balanced, and if everything is balanced, will stay about halfway between the two supply voltages. Since the other channel is okay, the supplies are balanced. Next thing is to verify the resistors. If any are off with their other of the same value, will cause DC off set. If all are okay, check the voltage drops across the B-E junctions of the outputs and the bias diodes. It's hard to do accurately, since both are essentially in parallel. It's all about balance - if the bottom pair idles slightly higher than the top pair, it will pull the DC offset down, or if less then DC offset goes up.
Image from STA-501A schematic, so hope no discrepancies.
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So... I buggered it up...

First thing I did was recheck the DC... this time I got 0.003 on the left and 0.015 on the right, which I thought was suspect because I was sure of what readings I got last night and hadn't done anything to change anything, for some reason I thought I'd move it off the Dim Bulb and put it direct to mains, dunno why I thought that would make a difference but that's what I did.

Measured again and got the same good results, so I thought ok it's fixed itself, dunno how but thats what the measurements was telling me.

I then thought I'd go ahead and do all the checks as directed above so I could report that back and get an opinion on the health as we see it now.

First wobbler is as far as I can see there are no diodes in this amp...

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... these are the only components in the circuit between the driver transformers and the outputs on the heatsinks.

There appears to be a resistor and ceramic cap per channel located next to the tranformers on the left side of the image... to the right of those and before the terminations that run out to the outputs there 2 pairs of resistors per channel, the large red ones are 1k Ohm the smaller ones are Brown/Green/Black/Silver which I deciphered as 15 Ohm 10% tol.

I measured the resistance across all of them in both channels, the big ones were all within tolerance of 1k Ohm, we're talking a few decimal points off in any given direction on each. The smaller ones all rang out at circa 11 Ohms, all evenly across the 4, but out of tolerance. I thought not perfect but not an explanation for a hum on one channel alone.

Went a little off script here and thought I'd put the Peak DCA55 on the output transistor terminals, where the wires are attached to the transistor sockets to be exact (with the power button off), went to the upper first and it told me there was a short between E-C... I thought that couldn't be right because it sounded fine (to me) when I put some signal through the amp last night. Decided it must be because I was trying to do it in circuit.

So next I went to check the voltage drop across B-E, connected black probe to chassis ground and with red probe in hand started on the right channel, upper output read 21.4 at the base and 21.2 at the emitter, don't know what I was expecting to see so just wrote it down to report, reached down to the lower output, got 21.4 at the base but when I went to move to the emitter I touched on it but it slipped off and there was a 'pop', followed imediately by a very loud hum out of the right channel... great... I'd blown it up. :mad:

First reaction was to get the power off of it, hit the power off button on the unit and reached for the off button on the dim bulb... that's when I realised I hadn't put the thing back onto the dim bulb... dunno if that would have saved me but still felt like a clot.

I dismantled the heatsinks and removed the outputs to test them out of circuit, the Peak still says the upper has a short circuit between C-E, but if that was the case what symptom should I have heard last night that I didn't, surely that's a big issue on it's own??

As for the lower the Peak thinks it's now an LED... a shorted one at that.

These outputs are not the same as the 501 either, instead of the 2SC1030 as in the schematic, what came out were 2SB361 Germainium PNP... wasn't expecting that when all the other transistors in it I was expecting to be Germanium came up as Silicon.
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... with no thermal paste on them at all...

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... I checked the left channel with a signal (left RCA only), with the right channel circuit breaker held in to isolate that side as well, the left still works fine.

... so... what kind of damage can I expect?... will the shorting have destroyed any other components?... can I just replace the 2 bad ones?... or should I replace all 4?... do I replace with exactly the same that came out (if you can still get them)?... or is there an equivalent that is either better or just available?...

Soooo many questions in my head right now, and I'm kicking myself up and down the house, thought I'd cracked it, my first foray into fixing up some vintage audio... bugger!

... and the other thing is, if I'd just accepted that the new readings I got first thing tonight were good and everything was running fine now and I'd left it alone it'd still be working...

I am sooo p!ssed off! :rant::rant::rant::mad:... mad at myself more than anything else.
 
Ok... I'm over it... what's done is done... live and learn.

Replacement output transistors... the 2SB361 looks to be pure 'unobtainium', but looking for alternatives I found this resource...

Datasheet Archive: 2SB361 datasheets

... and from the various micro-fische scans there listing viable alternatives I've got a shortlist, and quickly looking they all appear to much more available...

AL-102
AL-103
2N1531
2N2147
2N2289
2N2290
2N2291

... all PNP Germanium, I'm now running the numbers through this site... (edit** well... not right now... it's 2 o'clock in the morning here and I'm going to bed)

alltransistors.com

... to look at there specs.

The 2SB361 specs look like this...

Type Designator: 2SB361
Material of Transistor: Ge
Polarity: PNP
Absolute Maximum Ratings
Maximum Collector Power Dissipation (Pc): 12 W
Maximum Collector-Base Voltage |Vcb|: 80 V
Maximum Collector-Emitter Voltage |Vce|: 80 V
Maximum Emitter-Base Voltage |Veb|: 1 V
Maximum Collector Current |Ic max|: 5 A
Max. Operating Junction Temperature (Tj): 90 °C
Electrical Characteristics
Transition Frequency (ft): 0.5 MHz
Forward Current Transfer Ratio (hFE), MIN: 50
Noise Figure, dB: -
Package: TO3

... I'm guessing I need to look for a replacement with at least the same values or more, correct?
 
That's a bummer. The TRM-40b has similar output design with 2SB361 - but slightly different resistor values. No diodes either.
 
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