On the benefits of Canare cabling ...

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Reviving this thread. I finally acquired some Canare 4S11 Star-Quad cables terminated with locking banana plugs. I have been reluctant to purchase Canare cables because of the numerous claims stating that 200 or more hours of burn-in is required before these cables produce the best SQ in one's system. However based on a friend’s experience who has been using Canare cables for over a year and said he never noticed any change in his system’s SQ and he has over 300 hours on his Canare cables. He said his system sounded great when he first installed his new Benchmark AHB2 amp and Canare cables (which were recommended by Benchmark) and it always sounded the same to him.

So before I installed the Canare cables on one of my systems, I took them over to my friend's house to compare them with his Canare 4S11 cables which are identical to my cables including the same locking banana connectors. His speakers are Fyne 501SP. These speakers are the upgraded version of the 501 floor standing speakers with a coaxial tweeter/midbass and are made in Scotland. These speakers are very dynamic and revealing with superb detail and clarity as well as a punchy bass.

We played several tracks that my friend was familiar with and several that I was familiar with before switching cables. We switched cables and played the same tracks again. We were not able to discern any differences in SQ between the cables. The SQ with both sets of cables was superb. Finally we put a new cable on one channel and a used cable on the other channel and we still could not discern any difference. By the way, his son stopped by for the listen and his wife joined in, so we had four opinions. These results are consistent with Benchmarks so I still do not understand why some people hear significant changes after extended use with Canare cables.

Next, I am going to install the cables on one of my systems and see how they compare to my current cables.
 
Lou G said:
Reviving this thread. I finally acquired some Canare 4S11 Star-Quad cables terminated with locking banana plugs. I have been reluctant to purchase Canare cables because of the numerous claims stating that 200 or more hours of burn-in is required before these cables produce the best SQ in one's system. However based on a friend’s experience who has been using Canare cables for over a year and said he never noticed any change in his system’s SQ and he has over 300 hours on his Canare cables. He said his system sounded great when he first installed his new Benchmark AHB2 amp and Canare cables (which were recommended by Benchmark) and it always sounded the same to him.

So before I installed the Canare cables on one of my systems, I took them over to my friend's house to compare them with his Canare 4S11 cables which are identical to my cables including the same locking banana connectors. His speakers are Fyne 501SP. These speakers are the upgraded version of the 501 floor standing speakers with a coaxial tweeter/midbass and are made in Scotland. These speakers are very dynamic and revealing with superb detail and clarity as well as a punchy bass.

We played several tracks that my friend was familiar with and several that I was familiar with before switching cables. We switched cables and played the same tracks again. We were not able to discern any differences in SQ between the cables. The SQ with both sets of cables was superb. Finally we put a new cable on one channel and a used cable on the other channel and we still could not discern any difference. By the way, his son stopped by for the listen and his wife joined in, so we had four opinions. These results are consistent with Benchmarks so I still do not understand why some people hear significant changes after extended use with Canare cables.

Next, I am going to install the cables on one of my systems and see how they compare to my current cables.
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Experiential ... Do it and listen ... It's the only way.. (there needs to a thumbs up emoji on this board)

My experiences were different, but I'll offer all respects for yours ..
Neither negates the other .. they're simply different, as is every system, and every set of ears ..
And equipment for me includes every capacitor, circuit board, wire, traces, power supply, speaker driver, proximity of traces, wiring, room loading and treatment

Experiments and listening are the only way find audible improvements.. mine are based on many different equipment combinations but all in the same room ..

Enjoy the Music ..
And Kudos ..
 
Oh.. and connectors seriously and audibly modify what I'm listening to even with the same wire ..
The changes are surprising considering that only the connectors changed ..
 
onwardjames said:
I do believe that some of you guys were in my own cable thread a month or so back.

I was a skeptic. I'm a skeptic no longer.

Glad you're happy with your gear, Akustic.
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Yep and yep ..
It takes a long time and a lot of experiments ... but 15 small improvements added up to some very, very natural sounding music ..
I like my tunes to sound real and it's amazing how much better it is when you can hear the subtleties that the artist was hearing when it was created.
 
There is no known mechanism that would require break in for Canare cable. The manufacturer does not require it, no measurements performed soon after first power up or after an extensive "burn in" show it.
Like so many audiophile "it is known" statements, these things are NOT known.
I have a mostly Benchmark (2x AHB2s in dual mono mode) and RME (ADC/DAC) system with balanced interconnect wired with Canare cables.
 
So last evening I Installed the Canare cables on one of my three systems. I decided to use my office system for several reasons. First, the Peachtree Carina 300 integrated amp is the easiest to access to connect up the cables. Second, the Peachtree Carina 300 is my most transparent amp/DAC combination. Third, the KEF Calinda speakers in my office are my most revealing speakers even though they are my oldest. I purchased them new in 1979.

I spent about an hour listening and so far I am very pleased with the sound. There is not a significant difference between the Canare cables and my previous cables (12GA OFC made in USA). However I believe there are subtle improvements. I sense better detail and clarity and a more open presentation. I have to spend more time listening.

Here is a pic of the Peachtree and a pic of the Canare cables with the River Cable locking banana connectors connected to the Peachtree.

IMG_5676.jpeg

IMG_5677.jpeg
 
I am really happy that there are members on the forum that will support each other's perceptive bias without any comparative measurements or any sort of blind testing.

On various forums, I read posts from those who believed all cables sound the same regardless of cost or construction methods employed.

Without overthinking what others say, I no longer struggle to start a forum posting or feel awkward when members boast of their accomplishments or doubt my word.

Being an active member on the Audiokarma forums helped me develop the mindset and practical skills to build real relationships and enjoy my time on the web.
 
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Lou G said:
So last evening I Installed the Canare cables on one of my three systems. I decided to use my office system for several reasons. First, the Peachtree Carina 300 integrated amp is the easiest to access to connect up the cables. Second, the Peachtree Carina 300 is my most transparent amp/DAC combination. Third, the KEF Calinda speakers in my office are my most revealing speakers even though they are my oldest. I purchased them new in 1979.

I spent about an hour listening and so far I am very pleased with the sound. There is not a significant difference between the Canare cables and my previous cables (12GA OFC made in USA). However I believe there are subtle improvements. I sense better detail and clarity and a more open presentation. I have to spend more time listening.

Here is a pic of the Peachtree and a pic of the Canare cables with the River Cable locking banana connectors connected to the Peachtree.

View attachment 3743375

View attachment 3743377
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Respects .
Listen, experiment, listen, experiment ..
It's the only way ..

Then listen some more ,, sometimes for a week or so ..
It's surprising what you notice is missing or now present when you switch after a longer period of listening uncritically ..

It's a professional audio cable designed and refined for the professional audio community by a very large company in a competitive industry.
If it doesn't sound better than most, they're missing the boat.
Sounds like you're hearing the difference from your previous cables...

Enjoy the Music ..
 
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When unterminated, which is what I prefer, SP11 is a pure bargain ... $1.75/ft.

Sounds best @ 11ga. with spliced paired conductors .. deeper bass.
Use wire-strippers and strip the splice down for older amp or speaker connectors which are usually sized for 16ga max.
I prefer it unterminated but occasionally use a pure copper spade to make a multi amp or speaker arrangement connectable.

Music, Music ..
 
wyn palmer said:
There is no known mechanism that would require break in for Canare cable. The manufacturer does not require it, no measurements performed soon after first power up or after an extensive "burn in" show it.
Like so many audiophile "it is known" statements, these things are NOT known.
I have a mostly Benchmark (2x AHB2s in dual mono mode) and RME (ADC/DAC) system with balanced interconnect wired with Canare cables.
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Google the term Dielectric stabillization ...
 
Akustic said:
Google the term Dielectric stabillization ...
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Dielectric stabilization. Good grief- how audiophiles will grasp at any nonsense to affirm their preconceptions- how about looking up the effect of polymerization on dielectric stability, and the use of low level irradiation on polyethylene, for example? How about the effects on actual physical parameters if such stabilization is actually occurring?
What effect does a change in dielectric constant actually have? How large is this change in stabilized polymers? Why should the interface between the source and load care?
There are lots of good engineering/psychoacoustic reasons why things are as they are, and a century of actual science and engineering has exposed many truths.
That's why so many engineers, even those, like myself, who are involved to some degree in audio design, consider audiophiles largely to be a bunch of loons. Not all, but many.

There are papers that actually consider this for LDPE, including low level irradiation, which is what Canare does.
I'd like to link it, but it needs access to researchgate.

Variation of the Dielectric Properties of Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) with Heat Treatments and UV-irradiation Z. H. Dughaish Department of Physics, College of Science, Qassim University, P.O. Box 6644, Buraydah 51452, Saudi Arabia.
 
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By the way, I've had involvement with many professional recording engineers, off and on, for many years. They have their loony section, just like audiophiles.
The professional gear manufacturers, such as Benchmark and RME make rational recommendations for cable choices etc. No mystical non-measurable concepts involved.
Easy to check.
Do a double blind. Have two (or preferably more) canare cables of identical spec, one set burnt in, one set not. Have a second party label them and make a note as to which is which, and have a third party swap them into the system. without knowledge of their provenance. See if you can identify which is which. Take your time. Note the results.
See if it conforms to your expectations.

I've done this. I couldn't tell the difference. Nor could others that were involved in the assessment.
I've also done similar things with different cable makes- but there it could not be double blind, as the physical differences are obvious.
Yes, they DID sound different.
However, upon measuring the cables and the frequency response of the system while comparing the results to simulation, the results were unsurprising.

The audiophile community refuses to do these rational and reasonable assessments. Why is this?
 
Speaking of professional recording engineers, no one asked me... I just use Belden and believe it to be a good value for what I can afford.
 
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One of the very measurable things not discussed here with respect to star-quad cables is their high capacitance from conductor to conductor and conductor to shield. Canare star quad is about 150 pF/m conductor to conductor and 185 pF/m conductor to shield. Doesn’t matter for shorter runs with low impedance drivers but it adds up fast for long runs.

Another interesting artifact is the stability of line drivers under capacitive loads. Pro audio engineers pay attention to this as their gear often drives long lines. Consumer audio balanced line drivers may not be designed to handle high capacitance loads or may have high output impedance. The few that I have tested had poor longitudinal balance and exhibited overshoot and ringing when driving capacitive loads.
 
My consumer designs are unconditionally stable into all loads. It's not such a big deal. Adequate phase margin, introduction of a real part (c. 51 ohm R) in series with the output.
Rarely known facts.
All bandwidth limited channels will show ringing and overshoot with an ideal square wave, unless some very exotic filtering is done.
This is because bandwidth limiting modifies/eliminates the higher order harmonics necessary to reproduce the ideal waveform.
This makes conclusions about the stability of a driver stage less obvious than you might think, unless the stage is breaking into oscillation or has obviously really large overshoots/ringing.
 
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