Pioneer CS-88's Low Expectations. What A Surprise!

gbroot

gbroot

Super Member
My wife and I made the drive from NW Arkansas to Omaha, Neb (6 hours) last Thurs to see the Grand-baby and family! Decided to do a little facebook marketplace scouring and low and behold found some Realistic Nova 6's and Pioneer CS-88's for a take it all today price. Turns out they were one owner by an older gentleman and about as well cared for as any one could ask for. I have had more than one set of Nova 6's and they are IMO just a gem of a bookshelf speaker with some of the best bass response for an 8" woofer out there.

My interest was the CS-88's though as I have had no experience with these. From prior reading hear on AK they've only had so so reviews. However that said, I also know that 50 year old speakers most likely need some TLC to be brought back to their original specs, so at least some reviews/opinions only reflect the current status rather than restored status.

Well we rolled into our drive way around 3:30 this afternoon and by 4:00 I had my Nova 8b's disconnected and the CS-88's up and running. The 8b's and CS-88's are very close in size and weight. My guess would be 45lbs or so. I can't say I was blown away by the 88's but they were much better than I expected. The bass response far exceeded my expectations. Mids and tweets were present but rolled off. I went ahead and pulled up a cap list and ordered the caps from PE this evening. Getting the original caps out of there and deoxiting the mid and tweet controls should bring them back nicely. I did remove one of the grills and learned that the woofer surround is cloth and is supple, not stiff. My experience with old Sansui speakers is that nearly all of them have cloth surrounds that have grown stiff with age and don't perform well.

I'll get some pics up tomorrow as they are now and then continue with comment and pic posts as I progress in their restoration.

Cheers!
 
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Congrats on your purchase sir! I've had most of the Pioneer CS series and although they are not quite as good as the next revision, "A" suffix, they are very enjoyable after new caps and pot cleaning. Not to mention that the darned lattice grills are beautiful. I'm looking forward to some pictures and thoughts on their sound when completed!
 
As I promised here's some pics.1.jpg 2.jpg 5.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg 10.jpg 11.jpg
The build quality is second to none. The woofer is enclosed in a very heavy duty aluminum basket and magnets are massive alnico.
Capacitors are 50, 30, 15, 5, 2.4. I was able to find close equivalents on all but the 30 so I ordered 4 extra 15's and will double those up for the 30's. The worst on the cabs was a water stain which i was mostly able to get out. Working on sanding the rest this afternoon and applying the watco. Should have new cab pics up tomorrow.
 
Congrats on the speaker haul. I have 2 pairs of the CS88's I believe, they might be CS88a's too. Either way, I recapped them with Dayton film caps, and they sound dang nice in my workshop. On my pairs, the pots were sealed. I had to drill a small hole in the backs carefully, so I could get Deoxit in there. I posted a thread on my recap here, a search will likely turn it up. Good luck with your project. Keep us posted on your impressions post recap.
 
Onebean said:
Congrats on the speaker haul. I have 2 pairs of the CS88's I believe, they might be CS88a's too. Either way, I recapped them with Dayton film caps, and they sound dang nice in my workshop. On my pairs, the pots were sealed. I had to drill a small hole in the backs carefully, so I could get Deoxit in there. I posted a thread on my recap here, a search will likely turn it up. Good luck with your project. Keep us posted on your impressions post recap.
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I actually thought about drilling a very small hole as well. Glad I'm not too far off base in my thoughts! Got the sanding completed and watco applied last evening. Dang they look good. Heading out to a farmers market this morning. will try and get pics up later today.
 
When I drilled mine, I had my son hold the shop vac right next to the drill to suck up any chips. I wanted to prevent and loose metal from getting inside the pot. Be careful when the bit breaks through, so you don't damage the wiper. A good sharp bit, and going slow worked for me.

I wish I was going to the farmers market. Sweet corn is in full swing here in Nebraska, and it's so good. Late July and August we have either burgers or bacon sandwiches with fresh heirloom tomatoes and sweet corn about 2 times a week. My favorite meals ever!
 
Here's a couple of pics after sanding and applying a couple coats of Watco Danish (Neutral) Oil. Not perfect by any means but very presentable. Just waiting on caps now. Will report back once they're in and I've given them a good listening to. May try them out on my little HK 330B. Should be a really good match.
2.1.jpg 2.2.jpg 2.3.jpg
 
Well the caps are in and mid and highs controls have been deoxited. Huge difference!!! Repeating what I said in my initial post, I didn't expect much out of these but the price was right so hey hey! A word to the wise with a finger pointing back at myself included, it's really hard to judge any piece of vintage electronics unless there's been a bit of "freshening up". After recapping the crossovers, the difference is night and day. I expected a lack of bass response and while it surprised me how good it was on my initial testing when I first brought the speakers home, the recap tightened it up and the bit of boominess they had is no longer present. I played a couple of songs that my KLH Model 5's kick out the low notes on as a comparison. So yea I'll say it, these 88's go just as low. No they are not as refined as the 5's but they sound excellent and don't take the power that the 5's do. I have to wonder if their magic is due to the suppleness of their cloth surrounds. The cloth surrounds of the Sansui SP-2500's and SP-2000's I once owned were stiff. But at the time I just thought that was how they were supposed to be. Maybe not? Their original specs begged to differ. The 88's are rated down to 25hz. The music I played had some bass lines probably down to 35hz or so and there was no struggle hitting them whatsoever. These Pioneer CS-88's are a win for sure but require TLC to bring them back to their former selves.

Cheers!
 
Good job bringing them back to life @gbroot ! I never judge a speaker without performing a re-cap and cleaning all tone controls thoroughly. The KLH model 5's are a good speaker and it's actually a good speaker to compare them with. I'm sure you can notice that they definitely do not sound the same, but that may or may not be a good thing depending upon your preferences. Thanks for the thread and your opinions, maybe other's may realize what it takes to make a vintage speaker sound as good as it was designed to! :music:
 
doctorolds said:
Good job bringing them back to life @gbroot ! I never judge a speaker without performing a re-cap and cleaning all tone controls thoroughly. The KLH model 5's are a good speaker and it's actually a good speaker to compare them with. I'm sure you can notice that they definitely do not sound the same, but that may or may not be a good thing depending upon your preferences. Thanks for the thread and your opinions, maybe other's may realize what it takes to make a vintage speaker sound as good as it was designed to! :music:
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I prefer sealed boxes like the KLH 5's. I was very surprised at how small of a port the 88's had and also the insulation layers that they had, nearly like a sealed box. As a young newly wed in the late 70's I had a set of Pioneer HPM 60's. I would say that the 88's are warmer and not as much an in your face west coast speaker as the HPM's.
 
I had a pair of CS77’s about 2 years ago that did not move me too much, but looking back, they could have desperately used a recap. Sometimes wish I had ‘em, if only for those gorgeous cabinets.

I have a pair of Sansui SP-2000’s all recapped and treated to satisfy my Lattice Lust, and they honestly are fun speakers. They get more dynamic as you open them up, and while they don’t have much *real* bass, they have that old-school mid-bass thump when you place ‘em squat on the floors. Critical listeners will be sorely disappointed, unless suitable chemical treatments or beverages (*wink*) are applied.
 
The SP-2000's original specs for the bass went to 35hz. More than likely the surrounds on the woofers have gotten stiff. The 2000's I had sounded really good when a powered subwoofer was added in to the mix.
 
I agree with your thoughts on the Sansui surrounds, but they can be repaired. As for the 88's, at low volume the bass is lacking compared to your 5's, but once given some power they definitely are more enjoyable! An FYI, my wife has seen many speakers come and go, but she complained when I sold my 88A's, funny. We all have our own preferences in sound quality, but the Pioneer speakers in that era with their build quality and looks are pretty damned nice in my opinion.
 
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