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Silver and its impact on HiFi

onanysunday

chasing realism
Subscriber
After experimenting with lots of different material in circuits, I thought I'd share some feedback I've noticed over time regarding the use of silver in audio. It is the most conductive metal, with an International Annealed Copper Standard (IACS) conductivity rating of around 106% compared to annealed copper which has a conductivity of 100% (IACS). The first thing to know about using it is that it tarnishes when exposed to air. This means that it is best utilized internally -behind wire insulation and within capacitors (for instance). Because of this, I don't recommend using any silver externally- such as a plating material on cable connectors or on AC plugs, as it will form a dull tarnish on the outer layer over time by reacting with sulphur and chlorine in the atmosphere which will gradually diminish conductivity and fidelity and require constant de-oxidizing to maintain its highest level of performance. The more you de-oxidize any silver externally, the quicker it appears to re-tarnish again in the future. Also, any corresponding jack metal plating that receives/ accepts a silver connector into it will become corroded and also require cleaning due to galvanic corrosion, where the corresponding (non-silver) plating material often gets eaten away by it -as seen on gold and nickel plated RCA jacks on the back of equipment for instance. For these reasons, silver connectors and plugs can become a cancer or liability to your equipment and its jacks; when it is visible to you externally and exposed to air. Combining/mating dissimilar metals exposed to air using silver as one of the two metals is not a good idea.

With that out of the way, what are some of the benefits of using silver appropriately/ when it is hidden or sealed inside other material? It adds definition and clarity with an added lightness and speed to the sound. Musical presentation becomes more effortless as observed from things such as instantly reproducing more realistic sounding crescendos while maintaining a higher level of musical separation between all instruments and their placement within a soundfield. Soundstage is improved with silver and it adds more depth, space, and dimensionality to the sound. It improves dynamic range while improving the overall performance ceiling to a higher level. It is better able to reproduce very small details in recordings you may not have heard before -most especially noticed in the HF range. It is less forgiving, and will highlight artifacts or limitations in the original recordings and equipment that was used to record the source material, such as tape hiss on older, analog recordings, or more noticeable crunchiness and grit to low-resolution, digital aliased synthesizer sounds. This means that the quality of sound heard going from song to song will have more variability in its presentation than heard before. It doesn't "gloss over" anything. You hear everything on the recording that wasn't noticed before. This can sometimes be observed going from song to song within the same album, but is even more noticeable when listening to two completely different types of recordings one right after the other. I noticed volume levels going from one track to another may sound higher and lower than they did before -i.e. the complete absence of any "loudness normalization". Listening to a really old, poor recording can make your heart skip a beat and will have you questioning whether something is suddenly wrong with the sound of your system. Then, play a high resolution track right afterwards and suddenly be blown away by how much different, better, and more defined it sounds than you've ever heard it before.

These effects can be observed and introduced even using a small amount of silver. You don't have to convert everything to all-silver to hear these differences or notice them. Some cheaper components claiming they contain "silver" that isn't, but is instead some type of cheap, silvery looking alloy, can lead to a brittle sound that is harsh and edgy. Real silver sounds more detailed from top to bottom and doesn't hurt your ears. Silver can take a system beyond 100% of what had already been maximized about it before through careful component and material selection. It provides an additional boost to performance that cannot be achieved otherwise -without using some silver, somewhere. This is not to say everything sounds limited or bad without it, absolutely not. In fact, you'd never notice anything "off" with the sound of anything that isn't using any silver. But using it can take performance to a higher level that couldn't otherwise be achieved before. If you are someone who likes listening to the details, or the very small technical nuances in a recording (including any source limitations), then adding some silver to your system (somehow) could be right for you.

What are some ways to introduce silver into your system in targeted ways that I've found? Pure silver wire, silver-plated copper wire (can be implemented within equipment as internal wiring, or as external cabling/ wiring), silver mica capacitors, mkp capacitors using silver in their construction. Also, since silver is considered a very high-end conductor, what you'll find is that materials that use silver will also use higher quality film insulators/ dielectrics where applicable, such as polypropylene and teflon in cables/ wire and film capacitors. When you improve to silver, you also typically improve to better performing films with lower dielectric values (dielectric constant, dielectric absorption, dielectric loss) and lower dissipation factors. This often leads to a doubling-down of the performance effect that is realized when switching over to something with silver in it, as better performing films go hand in hand with the added performance of using silver -namely in their reduced interaction, leeching/ smearing effect, energy lost as heat, loss of signal, and their inability to hold a charge/ absence of capacitive effects of a conductor passing through them.
 
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Oh you're really trying to bankrupt us :)

Maybe 30 years ago I bought a silver bnc digital cable, it went black.

Someone recently was posting about buying jewelry grade silver wire rather than hifi loaded extra expensive silver wire. One of the many cable threads.
 
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Interesting. How did the cable turn black, was it an uninsulated bare cable or have an air gap in loose fitting, open insulation? Sometimes, old transistor leads turn black also because they have some silver content in them. Using bare silver wire doesn't sound like something I'd want to deal with -though I could see how it is likely almost always going to be cheaper, since everything audio-related seems to have a "luxury tax" applied to it, unless you can source your own bulk material cheaply where the seller doesn't necessarily already "know" you'll be using it for audio -in which case they'd probably charge more for the same thing if they could. ;)

One such affordable cable I can recommend for internal/ external wiring is M16878/4. It is older Mil-Spec wire available in various gauges from leftover spools. It is silver plated copper insulated in PTFE/ Teflon. Buy it in bulk on the bay, sometimes in twisted pairs (as shown below). It's usually around 80 cents per foot in the 16awg thickness when purchased singly, or slightly more per foot when purchased as a continuous length of twisted pair such as this. I recently replaced all internal wiring on a pair of Dynaco A-50 speakers with it and the results were nothing short of spectacular compared to before. You can also use it as high-end speaker cable which is much easier than re-doing any internal wiring on your equipment and will have a similar effect to the sound.

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10 year old 4 way pure silver speaker wire...

If your running 40 year old mid-fi gear you really don't have a need for silver wire.

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Rcs16, Voice coils are aluminium for lightness.

Onanysunday, they had plated the outside of the connectors with silver, looked great for a few months. A misadventure. I'll lookup that cable you suggested thanks.
 
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As mentioned, silver can be used but it doesn't have to be. I have some systems using it, while others not at all. I don't necessarily feel that my systems not using it are handicapped. They seem just fine without it and are very pleasurable to listen to, so I choose to keep them that way -without silver. It should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Anything can sound perfectly fine with or without it. When it is used however, it is generally noticeable from my experience with results and effects to the sound that are consistent. The higher conductivity passes more musical information in the signal than is otherwise possible with other conductors which are all lower-grade and not as revealing by comparison. So, one way to look at it is that you can use silver to brighten/ lighten/ speed up an otherwise thick/ muddy or slow sound to equipment that has already been serviced and still sounds this way.

Silver takes it to the next (or ultimate) level of detail retrieval and the ease in which very slight details or spatial cues are instantly heard through the speakers. One of the best ways I can describe it is it makes your speakers sound like they are doing more without trying as hard. You can use it to EQ sound to some extent in this regard which is perhaps a better way to look at when or where it can (or should) be used. If you ever feel something is "missing" in the signal or in a familiar song you may have heard before on different/ better equipment, silver can help restore it. An example where I may not recommend it would be if you have equipment that already sounds too "hot" or trebly, sibilant, tinny, shrill, piercing, fatiguing, or already has too much HF energy. This is assuming all of its other components are in-spec or not inadvertently contributing to this type of sound in which case they should ideally be addressed or improved first before using silver as a band-aid to compensate for underlying issues. When used appropriately, it increases fidelity.
 
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Wow, silver sounds better than copper, really now, like the electrons make a difference. And they wind speaker voice coils with aluminum wire, bond wires in semis use aluminum as well. I guess they are just not with it.

I can only assume this is coming from a theoretical viewpoint and not practical lived experience of good quality copper vs silver cables (exact same construction method/geometry) back-to-back in the same system? I've done exactly that and the silver cables won me over.
 
I can only assume this is coming from a theoretical viewpoint and not practical lived experience of good quality copper vs silver cables (exact same construction method/geometry) back-to-back in the same system? I've done exactly that and the silver cables won me over.
I don't know what basis rcs16 used for his remarks but your "I can only assume" is quite dismissive. There are more than "theoretical" reasons that one might be skeptical. But let's set that aside.

Instead, can you be more specific about your own experience? Which cables did you use in your test that were exactly the same except silver vs copper? What was it about the performance of the silver cables that "won you over"?
 
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I don't know what basis rcs16 used for his remarks but your "I can only assume" is quite dismissive. There are more than "theoretical" reasons that one might be skeptical. But let's set that aside.

Instead, can more specific about your own experience? Which cables did you use in your test that were exactly the same except silver vs copper? What was it about the performance of the silver cables that "won you over"?

It may well come across as dismissive, but I feel it's an appropriate response given that it flies in the face of the spirt (and rules) of this section of the forum:

Welcome to The Cutting Edge/Thinking Out Loud (Rules)
 
@pete_mac
Let me repeat myself:
Can you be more specific about your own experience? Which cables did you use in your test that were exactly the same except silver vs copper? What was it about the performance of the silver cables that "won you over"?
 
@pete_mac
Let me repeat myself:
Can you be more specific about your own experience? Which cables did you use in your test that were exactly the same except silver vs copper? What was it about the performance of the silver cables that "won you over"?

In summary, I experimented with a number of different base wires and dielectrics back when I used to make cables (for personal use, for audio friends, and occasionally for sale). I did not compare commercially available cables.

Same connectors, same dielectric, same gauge of solid core wire (with experiments undertaken on gauges ranging from 22awg to 26awg).

I also experimented with different specifications/purities of copper and silver, along with different cable construction geometries and methods.

In general, I personally found that good quality solid core silver base wire (not necessarily expensive, but of known provenance and dead-soft annealed) provided favourable resolution and sound staging qualities, whilst still sounding balanced from top to bottom (not bright, not lean). The solid core copper sounded great too, but I preferred the silver. Personally I'm not a fan of silver-plated copper as I think it delivers a somewhat "etched" and bright sound versus solid core silver - what I describe as a sense of "false resolution".
 
Silver helps reach performance goals and removes limitations to better sound. It's something that should be on everyone's radar as far as I can tell because it puts us in greater control over the outcome of the way our equipment sounds. Mostly, I like to be a more active participant and co-creator of sound instead of a passive observer to it by paying close attention to how inputs effect outcomes and then sharing what I've found so others can take advantage of the information on their next project. This, along with many other ways to influence sound through part and material selection, environment, speaker placement, or even actual EQs, is just one piece of the puzzle that can effect and enhance the experience of listening to music. I've had different outcomes with silver over the years to varying extents, but genuine silver consistently sounds very good to me whether it's solid or used as a plating material. I had, however, purchased some cheap silver plated cables at one point that didn't sound as good and hurt my ears which I am pretty sure where counterfeit using some cheap, silvery looking alloy, so there may be some variation within them or what you are expecting to get out out them depending how much you paid for them, where you bought them from, and the construction/ manufacturing process involved in making them.
 
@pete_mac
Thank you. In addition to the aspects you mentioned, the braiding pattern of any stranded wire, any braiding/twisting of the two conductors in a cable, and any shielding present can affect the frequency response and "sound" of a cable, at least to a degree. These are differences that can be measured objectively, although at audio frequencies, of course, the differences are quite small.

I don't dispute your listening results at all. Preferences established in this way have to be given weight! But that said, it is a bit of a leap to conclude that it silver vs. copper that makes the difference in a listening test unless the cables are really identical in all other aspects. Even then people will still disagree in whether any resulting difference is good or bad... :)
 
@pete_mac
Thank you. In addition to the aspects you mentioned, the braiding pattern of any stranded wire, any braiding/twisting of the two conductors in a cable, and any shielding present can affect the frequency response and "sound" of a cable, at least to a degree. These are differences that can be measured objectively, although at audio frequencies, of course, the differences are quite small.

I don't dispute your listening results at all. Preferences established in this way have to be given weight! But that said, it is a bit of a leap to conclude that it silver vs. copper that makes the difference in a listening test unless the cables are really identical in all other aspects. Even then people will still disagree in whether any resulting difference is good or bad... :)

Agreed - there are many factors that can influence the L, C and R measurements of a cable, and consistency in cable construction and geometry is critical. I always did (and continue to do) my level best to achieve consistency. My interest in measuring cables waned pretty quickly once I found that I could build cables that measure and sound the same as my "reference" for a given design on a repeatable basis.

These days, I don't bother with making fully custom XLR cables as the Connex BL-ag 2 x 23AWG solid core silver balanced cable from partsconnexion removes all of the legwork and sounds superb. Add your connectors of choice and you're set!
 
Sure I posted it in another cable thread here, but.. and this is just my opinion from my personal experience.

I at one time had an opportunity to test three different speaker cables in my system made by the same cable maker, one was made using mil spec silver plated copper, the second was a soft annealed silver (Suppliers to the jewelry industry) and one made of silver litz.

In my system it was easily heard the differences, construction was the same only the conductors were different.

The Litz was technically the best (from a subjective view point) very transparent and detailed top to bottom, with no harshness or brightness, slightly warm if anything. Soundstage was laid out like it was done by someone with OCD.
The Soft Annealed cable was not as detailed nor as accurate as the litz, but it had a dreamy emotive quality that elevated female vocals.
The Mil Spec in comparison sounded hollow, like the mids had been scooped out.

My opinion is that different sources of silver, just like copper can vary a lot in quality, with different and varying levels of impurities. Add to that the differing processes in manufacturing like how it is drawn ect'.

I have both copper and silver in my system.
 
The Litz was technically the best (from a subjective view point) very transparent and detailed top to bottom, with no harshness or brightness, slightly warm if anything. Soundstage was laid out like it was done by someone with OCD.
Hello there good sir! :)

I reckon I know exactly who you're talking about. Yes, his Litz cables are a thing of sonic beauty. I once owned his R1 Dragon copper/silver Litz RCAs and I still miss them.
 
One possible test I haven't run which may help provide answers for those seeking a more direct comparison of metals, i.e. copper vs. silver would be to compare a bare, solid copper wire to a bare, solid silver wire of the same gauge as a speaker cable as the dielectric constant of air/vacuum is 1 and sets the standard as the ideal insulator. It would remove other variables that impact and effect sound to get a more accurate gauge on things w/o anything else interfering such as strand interaction and dielectric properties of film insulators. I can see how litz would come out on top when compared to silver-plated copper and annealed silver having a lower skin and proximity effect. It offers a cleaner, more isolated signal from the interaction of other nearby conductors. Also, if the metal conductor(s) in the cable/wire is either annealed or single-crystal with less grain boundaries, its performance will be cleaner/ more accurate with less distortion than it would be otherwise from the heating or casting process involved in its manufacture. Also, the conductivity of OCC copper is even greater than 100% IACS and may begin to approach silver territory in terms of an ability for ultimate resolution and detail retrieval.

The thing to keep in mind about performance (and this is always true) the best we've ever heard sets the standard in sound (for us), but this doesn't mean it's even the best that is possible -it's just the best we've heard. This hobby for me is about pushing the limits and the boundaries of what's possible in terms of performance. A person could listen to an average system and if it's the best they've ever heard, it sets "the standard" for them, and they enjoy it greatly while thinking there's nothing wrong with it, i.e. nothing is missing for them. Expose them to a much higher fidelity system however, and only then can they see what they were missing before. In this sense, ignorance is bliss. The better you hear something, the more you begin to expect all other equipment to match its performance in the future. In this sense, coming up with ways of constant audio improvement is not for everyone and doesn't need to be either. It all depends on where you're at, and where you'd like to be. There's nothing inherently wrong with simply being content with what you have if it makes you happy and puts a smile on your face.
 
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I should mention I use EQs in all my main systems (using RTA) to get a read on room acoustics, combined equipment, and its subsequent frequency response to further tailor sound to achieve a more ideal FR curve with everything I'm listening to. Perhaps it goes without saying, but another interesting observation has been music sounds different with copper speaker cables compared to silver speaker cables while the EQ and my preferred FR curve remain constant. Keeping the silver in always sounds more detailed and revealing to me which is the main takeaway.
 
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