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Speaker cables - I share this at great peril

I was just thinking the other day about lamp cord.

I have several vintage lamps that most likely have pure copper power cords since it was dirt cheap back then.
Maybe a $10 lamp at Goodwill for the power cord might be the best bargain in audio.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, just removing and cutting/splicing to fresh wire could make a difference since copper tends to tarnish over time. I have always used bare copper wire and cut an inch off occasionally to keep the contact area clean.
 
Capitol C said:
Leave the room, have a friend flip a coin, heads the new cables, tails the old ones. Then have him remove the cables and reinstall/replace depending on heads or tails. He should write down the choice. Then have him leave the room without coming into contact. Then you decide if things have improved or stayed the same. You should write down the choice. Repeat many times, then compare lists.
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If I were trying to prove, without any doubt whatsoever, this is a fantastic controlled way to do this.

But, call me a lazy sloth, call me a convert, I don't feel any compulsion to do all that. Things sound great, and that makes me glad.

As I said earlier, I can literally blow my nose and things sound different, so at the end of the day, I don't fret over these things. I love music. These cables make me happy both aesthetically and sonically That's enough for me. I don't have to prove to anyone, because I'm not denigrating lamp cord, or even an old coathanger straightened out. I've actually used that, lol. If YOU ALL are happy, that works for me, and I can be happy listening to an old mono AM radio.
pete_mac said:
t's a shame that your post which has been made in "The Cutting Edge" section of the forum (with its forum-specific and unique rules) but is still subject the usual "blind test/ABX/it's all in your mind" responses.
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Doubters are going to doubt, and that's okay. I also doubt some claims, but at the end of the day, we're all friends, we're all enthusiasts.

The entry price for these lovely cables is ridiculously cheap, so, like someone in love, I wanted to talk about it.
 
onwardjames said:
Doubters are going to doubt, and that's okay. I also doubt some claims, but at the end of the day, we're all friends, we're all enthusiasts.

The entry price for these lovely cables is ridiculously cheap, so, like someone in love, I wanted to talk about it.
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EXACTLY!! I'm not gonna get silly about cables, but good ones are worth the money. And worth talking about! I use Blue Jeans 10 White with ultrasonically welded connectors. They're not really expensive, but sound much better than the 12ga bare wire I've used for decades without complaint. The 10 Whites convinced me that better cables truly CAN make an audible difference for the better.

Enjoy!
 
Just going to put this out there without taking a position on anything...

One of the "features" of many Adcom power amps is a lack (or a dearth, depending on one's point of view) of "protection" at the outputs. This lack may include not only protection relays but also R-C shunts across the outputs (i.e., Boucherot cells) as well as L-R networks in series with the speakers. As far as I was able to determine, the 5200 includes only the R-C shunt.

The function of the L-R network in series with the speakers is to protect against the influence a capacitive load otherwise will have on amplifier frequency response and, ultimately, on its stability. A capacitive load tends to increase the high frequency amplitude response---just a little or quite a lot depending on the details. The amplifier's phase response is also affected.

Here's where a person might make a conjecture or express an opinion... but I'm not gonna do that.
 
audiotemp said:
A capacitive load tends to increase the high frequency amplitude response---just a little or quite a lot depending on the details. The amplifier's phase response is also affected.
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From what I can tell, you're saying that my high frequencies could vacillate a little or a lot due to the high capacitance cables + the amp?

That's not what I'm describing, nor what I am hearing. However, I see you're being exceptionally courteous explaining the mechanics of what I may be hearing, and that is both appreciated and informative.

But please don't forget, I have owned this amp for some time, and have been enjoying it before the cables. I merely swapped from the usual Allo Volt D due to the terminals.

You could be right, and that's just fine. I'm surely not immune to the joys this hobby can bring when things come together, but respectfully, I don't think it's only that, or even mostly that.
 
onwardjames said:
AudioDharma?

Clever.

Burn-in? Uh, I already have 1.5 legs casually slung over Audio's "Third Rail", so I think I'll stay silent, lol. ;):rolleyes::biggrin:
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I just had to share (no affiliation).
hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com

FryBaby3 - Compact Burn-In Generator

The FryBaby3 audio system conditioner is a burn-in signal generator designed especially for cables and interconnects. It can also be used to burn-in linestages, phonostages, and amplifiers. The sophisticated electronic waveform, a combination of wideband noise and variable frequency amplitude...
hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com
 
Trying to increase my post count... I plan on retiring when I get to 10k messages...yay!

Maybe 10 years ago, when my ears were better I got a great deal on some mid-fi
Osborn Epitome Speakers
Consonance CDP, passive preamp and Cyber 800 monoblock power amp

One evening I noted that while the system sounded good, it was missing something.
Tried different CD's etc, gave up went to bed.
Next morning had another listen, nope, not right.

Turns out I had swapped the CDP/Pre interconnects, "plain" OFC replaced the silver.
When I reconnected the silver inter connects all was good. No I did not do a double blind test to verify all was good because of the silver items.

I could hear something was NQR, do we need double blind test to hear? Maybe some people do, especially when the difference is minor. Also depends on how revealing your system is and how good your hearing is. I recently self tested using pc sound card (ok, not a great method) could not hear above 14kHz. Maybe James can hear to 15kHz?
 
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onwardjames said:
From what I can tell, you're saying that my high frequencies could vacillate a little or a lot due to the high capacitance cables + the amp?
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Vacillate? Do you mean oscillate?

Stable or unstable in an amp refers to how close it is to oscillation. That could be happening as well (and it does affect the sound) but the less extreme situation with a capacitive load is simply that there will be emphasis of the high frequencies and no oscillation.
 
audiotemp said:
Just going to put this out there without taking a position on anything...

One of the "features" of many Adcom power amps is a lack (or a dearth, depending on one's point of view) of "protection" at the outputs. This lack may include not only protection relays but also R-C shunts across the outputs (i.e., Boucherot cells) as well as L-R networks in series with the speakers. As far as I was able to determine, the 5200 includes only the R-C shunt.

The function of the L-R network in series with the speakers is to protect against the influence a capacitive load otherwise will have on amplifier frequency response and, ultimately, on its stability. A capacitive load tends to increase the high frequency amplitude response---just a little or quite a lot depending on the details. The amplifier's phase response is also affected.

Here's where a person might make a conjecture or express an opinion... but I'm not gonna do that.
Click to expand...

My GFA555 II's have a Zobel on the outputs. Just a cap and resistor in series from the positive output terminal to ground.
 
kyle said:
If you're making these yourself, try the plenum grade cat 5 or 6. It's got a Teflon insulation on each strand.
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I had not heard of plenum grade before but the mention of Teflon insulation caught my eye. Any and all electrical considerations aside, I have always preferred working with Teflon insulated wire especially when soldering small wires.
 
mbz said:
Maybe James can hear to 15kHz?
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Just barely. Mostly, I have a very keen musician ear, and perfect pitch. Not bragging, because it's not as fun as it sounds.
audiotemp said:
Vacillate? Do you mean oscillate?

Stable or unstable in an amp refers to how close it is to oscillation. That could be happening as well (and it does affect the sound) but the less extreme situation with a capacitive load is simply that there will be emphasis of the high frequencies and no oscillation.
Click to expand...
Bad choice of words. To vacillate is to waver. I actually should have used oscillate, but I'm no tech, more an English guy, so that word wasn't the one.

You're obviously very tech-savvy, so yeah, oscillate. What I'm hearing is not more highs, nor a boosting of said highs.

The thing that keeps smacking me in the face is the extreme depth, the pinpoint accuracy. It's frightening to hear a trumpet TWO FEET to the left of the speaker.

Thanks for the grammar correction, sir.
 
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Enophile said:
That's why when my wife answers the phone, I always start the conversation with, "You sound familiar. Do I know you?"
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Back in the day of landlines had to use an operator. Operator came on line asked me what I needed. As soon as I finished heard "Hello Mark". If there had been video you'd have seen me with a surprised mouth open look on my face. Turned out it was Barb my wifes best friend whos was an operator at the time.
 
The plenum grade FEP/teflon insulation types mentioned in this thread (dielectric constant 2.1 vs. 3.5 for typical PVC) is going to offer best-in-class performance in terms of having the least interaction/ loss of the signal passing next to it regarding its lower dielectric figures (constant, loss, absorption). Individually insulated conductors of all these Cat cables is of course another advantage to using them for a cleaner/ purer signal and will give you performance somewhat similar to kimber kable. You can also choose between solid core or stranded types, some of which use annealed conductors which are even better. Of course, always choose real copper over CCA types when given the choice. I've also been surprised at the quality of the audio signal passing through regular Cat5 insulated in PVC when used as speaker cable. The gauge is too anemic for bi-wiring a speaker with unless you go with the thicker "bundled" 25 pair variety of Cat cable, but it's cheap when purchased as leftover spools online.

* Here's an example how I made bi-wired speaker cables using the much thicker "bundled" Cat5 type by assigning them to both the High and Low sections of the speaker banana jacks. I also assigned white, red, black, yellow and violet to Positive. This is a 2 into 4 cable, with the amplifier side having thick, combined conductors. I used the KLEI Classic Harmony silver banana plugs which effectively allow the cable to be used as both bi-wired and also plugged into itself and piggybacked, creating a regular two-terminal speaker cable which makes it very adaptable and work for all speakers with banana jacks. It worked out well and sounded fantastic, but there's no room for error if you get any of the polarities wrong.

20230809_115744 (1).jpgcat5bundled.jpg
 
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I don't understand why IC and speaker cables generate such controversy. I've heard the Cat 5 (5e, 6, etc) cables and they are good. If they sound to your liking - enjoy it :-) My favorites wires are currently Neotech NEMOS Series - for exactly the same characteristics that OnwardJames sites in his post about his favorite ;-) I don't know about other's, but that 3D soundstage stuff (and rendering of ambiance / recorded space) is what differentiates wires (IC and speaker) for me. All this reminds me of a Genetic Biology Lab class that I had in College. We had stereo microscopes for characterizing phenotypes of fruit flies. Some people could see a 3D image in them and some simply could not. If you don't hear it (or see it) don't get mad at those who do - we are all different. Enough said.
 
onwardjames said:
... As I stated to the creator (who I've ordered 2 more sets from at a more-than-reasonable cost) I cannot go back. I have also spared any comparisons to super-expensive speaker cables, though I know a few who have made some pretty shocking claims about just how good these are. They may chime in...
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I swear I am not trying to open up a dumpster fire by mentioning bi-wire, but if you like the difference with the speaker cables and have 2-way speakers with separate hi/lo binding posts, you might want to ask him to build you a bi-wire set. At a minimum, bi-wiring doubles the surface area and halves the resistance -- the effective gauge of the single wire drops by 3 (e.g. 14 gauge bi-wired is effectively 11 gauge). It also gives a dedicated separate signal paths for the high and low frequency signals (this statement often sparks a debate, but is not debatable, it's just how current flow works when the connecting plate is removed from the hi/low speaker posts). Whether bi-wire makes any audible difference can be debated all day long -- but it might be something to try given your revelations with the single speaker wire upgrade.

I don't have any opinion on whether quality speaker wire or bi-wiring makes any difference. I built bi-wire 10-gauge speaker wires for my main system because it wasn't expensive to do -- maybe $60 10+ years ago including Techflex sheathing to make them look pretty (they are about the size of thick jumper cables) -- not because I was expecting a massive or even audible difference. The 10-gauge wires in bi-wire configuration means they are effectively 7-gauge for an 8-foot run. In other words, absolutely overkill, but inexpensive overkill, so why not?

It took me so long to build them that I didn't really have a comparison to the old 14-gauge (or whatever) single wire it replaced. I also didn't go to great pains to compare before and after because I didn't expect any audible difference. I did feel like it sounded better with the new cables, but don't put much credence in my own conclusion since I didn't really even try to do a comparison. It's inexpensive to build high quality cables -- and it's costs only a tiny bit more to make them bi-wire, so why not?

I have no experience with Cat-5 speaker cables -- my dual 10-gauge uses standard Belden OFC wire. Curious about Cat-5 differences.
 
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