The internal-to-AK "Hifi is a waste of money" thread.

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Fisherdude said:
Then you don't read very many threads on AK.

Both ends are well represented; those who repeatedly refer to folks who like their vintage gear as "dumpster divers", and those who think if you paid more than a garage sale price you're a moron.

The snobs and the reverse snobs are here in equal numbers.
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+1 on both sides being represented here.

My first system was a Muntz 4-track car tape player, with custom cabinets made for coaxial 6x9 speakers with a 12v to AC converter so I could play it in my bedroom.
A Sansui 5500 and Altec 867a in the military, and lots of hifi in between from B&W DM5 to my current system, it has been a great hobby. I like where I am now after upgrading my system over the past several months with good advice from a lot of people on this forum. One thing in common to everyone here is they love music! Thanks for the music!:music:
 
I think you will find this kind of conversation in any hobby. I am involved in the motorcycle paint/airbrushing business, and we see the same thing there. Seems some people have the idea that their way is the only way to do things. Man, what a boring world it would be if we all thought the same, and favoured the same gear. In the meantime, I'm still going to enjoy my system, with it's 'high end cables', because I like it:)
 
there is something for every budget...Just like "car guys". Some enjoy bringing back an old beat up car to life, and others like buying a brand new Ferrari. same with hifi gear. at the end of the day everyone enjoys it in their own way.
 
OP here.

Seems some people understand what I'm referring to and others don't. And some people claim to not care what others think (let me know how that's going)

It's also not my intention to divide or unify, just to explore.

Perhaps a simpler way of asking the question I had in mind might be "why is it that someone who beleive that it's OK for a stereo system to cost two days' pay can also riddicule those who think it's OK for a stereo to cost 2 month's pay? Where is the line where disrespect kicks in? And why the heck does such a line even exsist?

With that said, i'll add that I get impersonnally insulted (by that I mean folks speaking mean-spiritedly in general about people in this hobby like myself) with enough regularity around here that it can really get me down sometimes.
 
Brett a said:
...I get impersonnally insulted (by that I mean folks speaking mean-spiritedly in general about people in this hobby like myself) with enough regularity around here that it can really get me down sometimes.
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Man you sure shouldn't. If a number of people talked down to AudioSource amps, JBL, DCM and even my mystery Philips loaded towers (and some probably do), it's only their potential loss, because it's pretty decent stuff.

Even if their gear is better, and often times it is, I bet they'd be kind of surprised by mine.

In the end it doesn't matter because I'm going to enjoy my gear, and update/improve it when I can/feel the need to or don't, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.
 
Brett a said:
Where is the line where disrespect kicks in?
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Just as soon as you spend more than someone thinks you ought to spend, based on their relative enjoyment of what they have and have spent.

If my SuperBlammo all-in-one is the absolute best sounding piece of gear I've ever heard, and I cannot fathom anything sounding better, and it only cost $10, then I'm going to have to look a little sideways at the fool that dropped $500 on a receiver - doesn't even have a record player in it!

And why the heck does such a line even exsist?
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I obviously want to prove that I'm right in my purchase of the SuperBlammo. I feel I'm right, and if you would just be a little more open minded, I'm sure you'd see it my way.

With that said, i'll add that I get impersonnally insulted (by that I mean folks speaking mean-spiritedly in general about people in this hobby like myself) with enough regularity around here that it can really get me down sometimes.
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It used to get me down, too, back when I cared enough to try to discuss audio stuff here. Then I realized that there wasn't any need in all that, I can do my own thing without really having to discuss any of that stuff. Plus it saves everybody the trouble of trying to discuss audio things with me, so win-win.
 
I think the issue raised in the OP surfaces organically with enough frequency that there's really not much need for this thread. Oh, and I think the sword of snobbery/reverse snobbery cuts both ways with approximate equality around here. Fortunately my rig is far enough away from either extreme on the expense scale that I usually get to sit out these ridiculous fights.

BTW, the music sounds really good in here right now. :music:
 
Brett a said:
OP here.

Seems some people understand what I'm referring to and others don't. And some people claim to not care what others think (let me know how that's going)

It's also not my intention to divide or unify, just to explore.

Perhaps a simpler way of asking the question I had in mind might be "why is it that someone who beleive that it's OK for a stereo system to cost two days' pay can also riddicule those who think it's OK for a stereo to cost 2 month's pay? Where is the line where disrespect kicks in? And why the heck does such a line even exsist?

With that said, i'll add that I get impersonnally insulted (by that I mean folks speaking mean-spiritedly in general about people in this hobby like myself) with enough regularity around here that it can really get me down sometimes.
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Your system looks very nice, is higher end than mine, and I'm sure sounds better. I recall complimenting you once with a PM after you had posted pics, and I hope that gave you a positive personal feeling which helped make up for some impersonal negative ones. Wish I had a neighbor like you. My system is good and I don't enjoy it any less knowing that there are multiple examples of better ones represented on this site. Perhaps some folks can't be happy unless they think their systems are best, perhaps it's just another example of inflated ego, or schlong-measuring behavior - I don't know.

I recently wanted to upgrade a pre-amp in my bedroom system. Could I afford it, I'd have bought a used ARC SP-8 which typically go for about $2000. I bought a used NAD 160 for $200 and it does sound a lot better than the Adcom pre-pro which it replaced. I'm satisfied. Now some people here think all pre-amps sound alike - the point being that for those who believe this, changing at all was a waste, and an even huge one had I afforded the SP-8. Others think the whole thing a waste because a vintage Sansui or Marantz or Scott or Fischer or McIntosh or Pioneer or even a Lloyd's, Lafayette or Loretta Lynn's Lincoln in-dash is best. (Okay, when young I had a truly horrible Lloyd all-in-one system, but saw a pic of a Lloyd receiver on this site that looked very nice - had not realized they'd ever even produced anything that good before, and there are probably some nice Lafayette pieces unknown to me also - less sure re Loretta's in-dash).

It is fine to have an opinion - perhaps the best outcome for the thread is a simple reminder to ourselves and one another that we should accord the opinions of the other guy the same respect we would wish for our own.
 
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People do have this urge to peck, and 'fight' for the highest spot in the pecking order. Some more than others.
 
JoeESP9 said:
What the OP has written is something that I often wonder about. There is an awful lot of name calling here by those who have spent less on their gear than others.

I've never seen a post here where someone with high zoot hear makes disparaging comments about those who are "cheapskates, GW shoppers and dumpster divers".

I do see plenty of snide remarks and comments about "audiophools" and "more money than brains". This is especially true where wires and cables are concerned although it happens with just about every audio product.

Some of the anti high end comments make me wonder where the "no attitude" part went to.
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You may not see these posts, but they exist. I recall one popular poster who commented that if someone was cheap, then he didn't even want to know them. The dumpster diver apellation is fairly common around here, too.

Dmannnnn said:
..............On the other hand I see folks who spend quite a bit on their systems refer to the other side, directly or otherwise, as cheapskates who have never heard a good system, a bit more on the personal side............
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They probably don't mean it to be personal any more than the guy who uses the term "audiophool". How you interpret what someone else says is often heavily colored by whatever chip you carry on your shoulder.

I've taken to trying to view posts without the chip. When I read a derogatory comment, I just assume that they aren't talking about me.....and you know what? They usually really aren't talking about me!

Fisherdude said:
Then you don't read very many threads on AK.

Both ends are well represented; those who repeatedly refer to folks who like their vintage gear as "dumpster divers", and those who think if you paid more than a garage sale price you're a moron.

The snobs and the reverse snobs are here in equal numbers.
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Snobs and reverse snobs...heh heh heh. I'm not either one but I clearly fit into the cheapskate category. This is what brings me to the hobby. Great old gear at dirt cheap prices. I stumbled into the hobby by accident doing picking and selling and I have learned to acquire myself some nice sounding gear and a lot of old albums so now I have good music once again like I did in the 70s and early 80s. Stereo has been rediscovered.

This place is a great source of information as well as a place where like-minded individuals can share their thoughts.

Cheers.
 
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The only high end stuff I ever really see get bashed on a regular basis here are high priced cables,interconnects,power cords,high end audio racks,and other assorted accessories.I think thats where Ive heard the phrase,"more money than brains" most often.
Ive often lusted after some of the wonderful equipment I see posted about here.But I dont think Ive ever longed for the high priced accessories.They might make a difference depending how high up the food chain you are,but I will never know,to be honest with you.
Just another asshole with his own opinion.I welcome yours as well.
Jimmy
 
I kind of straddle both worlds, since I have been involved in this hobby for many years. I've always been fascinated by high end gear, and strove to be in that arena as much as finances and interest would allow. But a lot of my gear is "vintage", since I bought it a long time ago. Until I came to AK, I never realized there were "camps" of enthusiasts for a certain era or style of stereo gear.

I see a great deal of misunderstanding and disrespect going both ways in these conversations (not this one).

I think it's cool that folks spend time making tiny subtle improvements to their systems by rolling in different small components like cables, cartridges, and tubes.

I also think it's cool that people reconstruct 60's and 70's era hi-fi's with silver faced receivers.

Neither one is for me, so when I see threads or posts which dig into these areas, I generally stay out. They're having fun, and I have no desire to spoil that.

I learn a lot here just by reading, even the threads I don't participate in.
 
JoeESP9 said:
What the OP has written is something that I often wonder about. There is an awful lot of name calling here by those who have spent less on their gear than others.

I've never seen a post here where someone with high zoot hear makes disparaging comments about those who are "cheapskates, GW shoppers and dumpster divers".

I do see plenty of snide remarks and comments about "audiophools" and "more money than brains". This is especially true where wires and cables are concerned although it happens with just about every audio product.

Some of the anti high end comments make me wonder where the "no attitude" part went to.
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I have seen both ways on here . There are a couple of people on here who bash just to get a reaction I think .
 
If you deleted every thread that contained arogant, condescending, ignorant, or disparaging comments as well as those rendering opinions without actual experience with the product or process - the only thing left would be the non-audio threads.

As with any hobby, the people here are passionate about their gear, their music, and their beliefs and they will defend them just as passionately when they are challenged.

Without the passion, the board would be empty. You can never separate the Attitude from the Audio as you would remove the passion.

Do some people need to tone it down a bit? Absolutely.
Have the zip wire supporters made their point clear? Absolutely.
Have the flat only people made their point clear? Absolutely.

Will that change anything? Nope.
 
Brett a said:
With that said, i'll add that I get impersonnally insulted (by that I mean folks speaking mean-spiritedly in general about people in this hobby like myself) with enough regularity around here that it can really get me down sometimes.
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You need go grow some thicker skin, my friend. It's an unfortunate fact of life that there's a helluva a lot more ingnorace out there than there is openmindedness. And if and when push comes to shove, there's little problem pointing out indulgences of their's that can in the eyes of another, could equally be considered be considered the subject of ridicule and scorn.
 
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