The Return Of Technics Is Symbolic, But Will Anyone Actually Buy Them?

jetstream said:
Because 78s are not always recorded at that exact speed so you need to adjust to it. In other words, 78rpm is not at the zero pitch position but somewhere else on the pitch scale. It has nothing to do with this turntable speed stability and w/f.
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Early acoustics are all over the map regarding speed. Some companies, such as Pathe, went with a different speed as standard. Pathe and Edison chose 80rpm.

There are many 78 enthusiasts who strive to do speed correction. Their efforts are complicated by the fact you often can't tell the key selected for the performance. Also standard concert tuning (A440) wasn't codified until after many of the early recordings were made. Thank goodness there were a few recordings that started with a pitch to help purchasers set their gramophones to the right speed. I correct to a known speed or when I feel something other than 78 is correct or sounds better, but I don't obsess.

I'm glad turntables that play 78's are still available. I've got over 3,000 and love to listen to them.
 
Here's where I'm hung up - The thing costs $ 4000 and in exchange you get to tell everybody you show it to "Yes, I know it LOOKS like the old one, but it's really TOTALLY DIFFERENT inside..."

Not feeling it, myself, but I am curious to see how the reviews and sales come in later this year.
 
I think if they could have offered it at bargain basement prices they would have sold like hotcakes. Or, if they had followed the lead from companies like VPI, they would be able to sell many.
 
dcmfan said:
Here's where I'm hung up - The thing costs $ 4000 and in exchange you get to tell everybody you show it to "Yes, I know it LOOKS like the old one, but it's really TOTALLY DIFFERENT inside..."

Not feeling it, myself, but I am curious to see how the reviews and sales come in later this year.
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It will indeed be interesting to see how many people on this forum, lay out the cash that we are hearing that these are going to sell for. Even if they get discounted down to $3k.
 
It's not like they didn't have anything a little more upmarket looking in their archive...

SLM2-2.jpg
 
:no:
for_p1 said:
This new 1200 will never be DJ table. They simply do not need it. But I think it will be a good competitor to tables like VPI. Look, there is no direct drive table under $10K on the market. If Panasonic engineers did their job well sound quality can and should exceed VPI Classic. One thing is needed though - interchangable tonearm. That would be a good feature for standard edition (vs. limited). If tableitself will be good - some high quality $2-4K worth arm will be more appropriate.

Panasonic will not sell many of them, but 10K first year and few thousand each year after that can be doable.
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Hmmm.... not sure if I would summise the potential market as such.. ?

I understand the competitive "value" you are referrring to but their is a serious interest and resurgence of the "ole school" value of the TT.

Recently I spoke with a young lady (30 something.. but younger than I), she professionally DJs, modern like equipment and is now highly interested in getting a TT and using vinyl media. Her justification, its in demand!

Apparently the Boomer market for entertainment and social events is huge. They wish to see the DJs playing on equipment of old,.... to include the big amps, speakers, and now TTs. Who can figure?

So I'm fairly sure, there is a movement of DJs wishing to put on a good show, to seize the moment, and get a good professional TT...... and "do their thing":banana:

Hmmm...... there may be a "vintage" niche for us old timers to supply...... After all!
 
dcmfan said:
Here's where I'm hung up - The thing costs $ 4000 and in exchange you get to tell everybody you show it to "Yes, I know it LOOKS like the old one, but it's really TOTALLY DIFFERENT inside..."

Not feeling it, myself, but I am curious to see how the reviews and sales come in later this year.
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That's not a reason I would ever buy a turntable, though, since I lead a lonely pathetic life when it comes to my audio hobby. :cool:
 
50nstillhifi said:
:no:

Hmmm.... not sure if I would summise the potential market as such.. ?

I understand the competitive "value" you are referrring to but their is a serious interest and resurgence of the "ole school" value of the TT.

Recently I spoke with a young lady (30 something.. but younger than I), she professionally DJs, modern like equipment and is now highly interested in getting a TT and using vinyl media. Her justification, its in demand!

Apparently the Boomer market for entertainment and social events is huge. They wish to see the DJs playing on equipment of old,.... to include the big amps, speakers, and now TTs. Who can figure?

So I'm fairly sure, there is a movement of DJs wishing to put on a good show, to seize the moment, and get a good professional TT...... and "do their thing":banana:

Hmmm...... there may be a "vintage" niche for us old timers to supply...... After all!
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For DJ use $800 worth Pioneer or even $300 AT tables are sufficient. There is no real reason to spend four grand. DJs are not really rich (at least 99.9% of them), and ar not in position to waste money on something that does not offer competitive advantage.
 
for_p1 said:
For DJ use $800 worth Pioneer or even $300 AT tables are sufficient. There is no real reason to spend four grand. DJs are not really rich (at least 99.9% of them), and ar not in position to waste money on something that does not offer competitive advantage.
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See your point..and understand better your position as specific to the 1200.

Thanks for the clarification!
 
Rob41 said:
The overwhelming majority of turntable owners only use 33 and 45. I'd think they would want to cater to the greatest market share rather than a niche market.
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Turntable users in general are a niche market; I don't see why they wouldn't want to appeal to the greatest number of that market they can. Also a 1200 without a pitch control would be just weird.
 
for_p1 said:
If 50 will do, it will be a big success.
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I suspect that the Special Edition will take several hundreds to reach, not break-even rather a point of not-loosing-too-much. The Regular Edition will need to sell in the Thousands to make back all the various sunken costs that Panasonic will have assuming that they are starting up a new 1200 production line in Japan from scratch.

Likely break-even or profit will wait for the 2nd or 3rd runs.

Mark Gosdin
 
All this talk of 'break even' and 'success'. It doesn't matter. The company is big enough to indulge as many of these projects as it wishes, keep some engineers happy, set a standard and probably sell thousands of them and maybe make some money.

Sony's top models never made them money, they were statement pieces, Just as Yamaha never made a cent on the Centennial Series. Some of the home market stuff was only made in runs under 500 and were never intended to make money.

This will sell in large numbers as it is an evolutionary, familiar and quality product, not some statement piece with dubious engineering at a stupid price, it is an approachable price for what is likely to be a turntable that will comfortably outperform most everything out there. I think $4,000 is reasonable in this day and age when you compare to the crap that's out there masquerading as well engineered. The arm is a proven excellent design and the motor can be now digitally controlled and reach a whole other level of performance. The thrust bearing and its mount have been upgraded and the entire motor is now a discrete unit, like the original SL1200.

Let the detractors try to detract when the machine finally hits the market and we get to see some actual real technical reviews- not just subjective opinions.
 
restorer-john said:
All this talk of 'break even' and 'success'. It doesn't matter. The company is big enough to indulge as many of these projects as it wishes, keep some engineers happy, set a standard and probably sell thousands of them and maybe make some money.

Sony's top models never made them money, they were statement pieces, Just as Yamaha never made a cent on the Centennial Series. Some of the home market stuff was only made in runs under 500 and were never intended to make money.

This will sell in large numbers as it is an evolutionary, familiar and quality product, not some statement piece with dubious engineering at a stupid price, it is an approachable price for what is likely to be a turntable that will comfortably outperform most everything out there. I think $4,000 is reasonable in this day and age when you compare to the crap that's out there masquerading as well engineered. The arm is a proven excellent design and the motor can be now digitally controlled and reach a whole other level of performance. The thrust bearing and its mount have been upgraded and the entire motor is now a discrete unit, like the original SL1200.

Let the detractors try to detract when the machine finally hits the market and we get to see some actual real technical reviews- not just subjective opinions.
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Okie dokie.
 
I wish any new TT success, from the base Orbit to ones selling for $200K. Not that I can't afford a new Technics and may consider one if I can go touch one and see it in action with some of my favorite records. It will need to be more than a visual or fan boy type of like. I am sure every magazine will praise it, as they do every piece of equipment they review, due to fear of losing advertising money. Let's not get to excited, whenever I get too excited about a any product, it is often a letdown. That's why when I auditioned Magneplanar speakers I waited two months to order them, and made sure it is what I really wanted.
 
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Restorer-John: How is $4k reasonable for a new one, when the old ones are still available at 1/10 that price and with great performance?

To get more than $1k, a TT needs to have an arm mechanism that looks like it came off a terminator, and a platter at least an inch thick, and some kind of fancy wood plinth or at least a high gloss finish.

I don't think they'll sell the mass market one for that price, or anything close to it. It'll have to be well under $1k.
 
Smaug said:
Restorer-John: How is $4k reasonable for a new one, when the old ones are still available at 1/10 that price and with great performance?

To get more than $1k, a TT needs to have an arm mechanism that looks like it came off a terminator, and a platter at least an inch thick, and some kind of fancy wood plinth or at least a high gloss finish.

I don't think they'll sell the mass market one for that price, or anything close to it. It'll have to be well under $1k.
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1) that's a question that could be asked about anything new, compared to anything used... some people just want NEW.
2) for a NEW table, $1k doesn't get you that. $1k gets a pretty nice Project or Music Hall with basic tonearm.
3) considering the new Pioneer (Hanpin clone of SL-1200) is $700, under $1k for the real thing seems unlikely.
 
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