AudioAvarice
Super Member
Keep an eye out for Luxkit tube gear, same Luxman quality but sold as kits, although many customers paid to have them factory assembled, it's also easier to find technical documents for them
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What high end brands offer best bang for your buck?
- Thread starter mcgarick
- Start date
If you look at trends today compared to years past, some of the amps listed where kits for budget minded audiophiles yet are held in high regard today. Today's budget models are mostly Chinese tube amps that I doubt will hold the honorable positions like those of the past. But if one looks at the past cost between good budget amps and the best amps of the past, the price margins were not all that wide, today it is no comparison. A cheap Chinese tube amp today is miles apart from the upper range quality amps made, so finding hidden bargains in new amps is going to be very hard if you're looking for high quality upper end amps in the new market.
Rogue Cronus Magnum. A version one or two used could be in your budget. They use 12au7 and 12ax7 tubes. And any of four power tube spec types. Upwards of 100 wpc with KT120 tubes. They get good reviews. I own a version one and a three.
My 2¢, your 90db speakers are going to want more than a few watts. Atleast for most people. I don't know how much experience you have with various amps and speaker sensitivities.
I don't know what you consider high-end. I go to Audio shows. $1500 doesn't usually get you into high-end.
My 2¢, your 90db speakers are going to want more than a few watts. Atleast for most people. I don't know how much experience you have with various amps and speaker sensitivities.
I don't know what you consider high-end. I go to Audio shows. $1500 doesn't usually get you into high-end.
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When did Accuphase make any tube gear? I don’t remember ever seeing or hearing about them making anything but solid state.
And someone earlier mentioned Rotel. I've only seen SS gear under that name.
Jack
I'm running a Dynaco ST35 into a pair of Polk Audio Monitor 10B, these are 89db sensitivity.
Unless your listening area is a barn (or barn-sized), 89db is more than sensitive enough to get clean sound at annoying-the-next-door-neighbors levels.
I paid around $400 for the ST35, in extremely nice, one-owner condition, but I did have to get a set of new matched tubes.
Unless your listening area is a barn (or barn-sized), 89db is more than sensitive enough to get clean sound at annoying-the-next-door-neighbors levels.
I paid around $400 for the ST35, in extremely nice, one-owner condition, but I did have to get a set of new matched tubes.
Out of the old amps like Heathkit, Dynaco, Scott, Fishers, Eicos, are they pretty equal in sound quality or does the Dynaco's stand out as the better sounding of them?
I ask as I have always avoided the Dynacos, as I liked the point to point wiring of the others where as Dynaco used an old PC board, which I didn't favor.
I ask as I have always avoided the Dynacos, as I liked the point to point wiring of the others where as Dynaco used an old PC board, which I didn't favor.
I have speakers at 88 and 90 db sensitivity, so either side of yours. IMO an EL84 push-pull amp just doesn't quite have the snot to do this very well. It works and I don't really blast the music but I find they fall short in the bass department. It just doesn't quite have enough watts to get it done and things end up sounding fuzzy when it tries. I hear it on things like drum kicks or other peaks that just need more power unless I turn it down to barely above background music levels. An amp that does a good 25 per channel really makes a big difference over the 15 watt amp for this.
I like EL84 amps and think they generally sound quite good, I just don't have speakers that are well suited to running them. They sound great at lower levels than I need to drown out the chronic ringing in my ears.
but of course you know what they say about opinions. They are all worth what you paid for them
It should also be mentioned that the use of tone controls or a loudness contour to boost bass will quickly clip the 25W amp as well. A tiny 3dB increase, which is barely perceptible, requires twice as much power from the amplifier. The soft-clipping effect of tubes tends to mask this, but it's evident if you listen closely and clearly visible on a scope. The only solution is a medium efficiency speaker system (about 95dB or 96dB) with flat output into the first octave. I don't know if any company still makes spekaers like this (I built my own about 25 years ago). Even speakers like the Klipsch Cornwall don't fare well in this respect. Klipsch marketing of "high-efficiency" produces speakers designed as a compromise between the available efficiency of the horns and the much lower efficiency of the woofer. They're balanced with the crossover network in a way the rolls off the deep-bass response. They would be flatter if the horns were padded down further to better match the woofer, but then the advertised efficiency numbers would suffer.
Jack
I don't have tone or loudness controls, but yeah its not real hard to hit the limits on amplifiers in this power range. Throwing watts at the problem helps but as you add more, it makes less and less of a difference.
The drop-off in efficiency of speakers at the bottom end also seriously exaggerates this. High pass to get the bass out of the tube amp and a sub would go a long way to helping things if you can get the sub dialed in well. Thats a whole other can of worms though.
The drop-off in efficiency of speakers at the bottom end also seriously exaggerates this. High pass to get the bass out of the tube amp and a sub would go a long way to helping things if you can get the sub dialed in well. Thats a whole other can of worms though.
My main preamp has tone controls, but the Bypass switch is nearly always activated. The response of the speakers makes changes unnecessary unless something is severely lacking in the source. I'll admit though that this is only the second system I've owned where that was the case. The first was a rental house years ago where my roommate and I installed four 15" woofers with ports in the doors of a walk-in closet in the living room. Yeah, that solved the bass problem.
Have tried active subs more than once over the years, but it never sounded quite right to me. An additional issue now is that I've gone to a lot of trouble to rid myself of solid state components and to make the signal path as reasonably short as possible. A sub would require a high-pass filter of some type at the main speakers, and that adds another layer of complexity and signal alteration.
Jack
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Mine has an internal high pass but its not adjustable and crosses too high. At that point the sub gets directional and I don't like it. Honestly for music its off mostly, I turn it on for movies because it fills in the very bottom end. I have it crossing over fairly low with a steep turnover. Its not doing anything over about 100hz.
maxhifi
Addicted Member
The Kit 4 might be a good amplifier, if you don't really need a ton of power. Audio Note amplifiers typically have excellent transformers, they don't hum, and all the parts will be new enough you're unlikely to need any rebuild work. They also usually can be resold fairly easily, as the name is well known. I don't know if the one you're looking at is a UK design or one of the newer Canadian kits, but either way it should sound good. I also see appeal in that it uses affordable and easy to find tubes, and is also not going to be a project.
I'm not seeing excessive gain, the phase inverter isn't a paraphase, there's localized negative feedback around the lower half of the ECC83, which then cancels out some of the gain of the top half. It looks like it should achieve decent channel balance and be less critical to section matching in the ECC83.
I'm not seeing excessive gain, the phase inverter isn't a paraphase, there's localized negative feedback around the lower half of the ECC83, which then cancels out some of the gain of the top half. It looks like it should achieve decent channel balance and be less critical to section matching in the ECC83.
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It's not?
maxhifi
Addicted Member
In a simple paraphrase inverter, the gain is going to be the open loop gain of the ECC83 under those operating conditions.
The AN circuit subtracts part of the output of the second stage from the first stage, and reduces the output of the second stage by applying negative feedback. Look carefully at how the 220k resistor does not go directly to ground. This is a fairly clever circuit, not the standard RCA receiving tube manual paraphase design, and likely took some fiddling around to arrive at a version which works perfectly with standard resistor values.
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Yes, I see all that, but I think it still qualifies as a paraphase. Signal from the first gain stage drives the second gain stage in order to create an inversion. I agree they must have done some juggling to arrive at standard values.
Jack
Jack