• Please note that there are a few updates and clarifications made in the Audiokarma Rules, mostly relating to advertising and the addition of the new "Paying it Forward" & "Giving back" forums in the AudioKarma Audio Marketplace section.

When is it justifiable to go for high end crossover components?

mrehorst said:
Isn't that just the bass filter? Is the furry stuff the "meta-material"? I would expect to see a separate, more complex board for the mid/high crossover.
My B&W 703 S3s have a similar filter for the bass:

View attachment 3732660

And a bit more complicated circuit for the mid/high:

View attachment 3732661
Click to expand...
The fluffy stuff is just fiber fill. The "meta" is a plate attached to the back of the tweeter. I would assume that that board in my pic is only for the base, as the blue wires go up much higher in the cabinet, but I'm not taking out a speaker to have a look see!

 
mrehorst said:
Isn't that just the bass filter? Is the furry stuff the "meta-material"? I would expect to see a separate, more complex board for the mid/high crossover.
My B&W 703 S3s have a similar filter for the bass:

View attachment 3732660

And a bit more complicated circuit for the mid/high:

View attachment 3732661
Click to expand...
Mundorf MCap EVO Silver Gold Oil. Wow, nice caps. $142 for the 10uF and $99 for the 5.6uF. Not cheaping out at B&W...! I often use EVO Oils and EVO Supreme Oils. I haven't tried the EVO Silver Gold Oils, though I'd like to....! :D
 
AudioAvarice said:
Ferrite for the woofer? Plastic for the mids, aircore for the tweeters, I would assume?
Click to expand...
I'd imagine so. Air-core chokes for the woofer portion of the crossover can get expensive, depending on the crossover frequency.

The iron-core choke has greater hysteresis. A small or big influence — depending on who you believe.
 
kirk57 said:
The real limit is defined by that voice inside your head saying 'yeah, it's good, but could it be better?'

I used to be tormented by that voice. My hearing has degraded to the point where I don't listen much to it anymore.
Click to expand...
That's why it's sometimes better to keep the crossover deep in the speaker's cabinet, far from inquisitive eyes.

9df51db3-11a2-4a9b-96a5-9146f59a946b.gif
 
Mr Boochie said:
That's why it's sometimes better to keep the crossover deep in the speaker's cabinet, far from inquisitive eyes.

9df51db3-11a2-4a9b-96a5-9146f59a946b.gif
Click to expand...
Or provide the crossover with multiple settings to compensate for what may be "lacking" in that specific cut. And of course every cut is different.

I designed my crossovers with 27 variations (different slope patterns) to pretty much cover the bases at the flip of a switch(s). Some are very similar such that you would need to A/B them very closely to recognize a difference, whereas some are considerably different and easily recognizable (e.g., vocal emphasis, tube simulation).
 
toddalin said:
Or provide the crossover with multiple settings to compensate for what may be "lacking" in that specific cut. And of course every cut is different.

I designed my crossovers with 27 variations (different slope patterns) to pretty much cover the bases at the flip of a switch(s). Some are very similar such that you would need to A/B them very closely to recognize a difference, whereas some are considerably different and easily recognizable (e.g., vocal emphasis, tube simulation).
Click to expand...
I don't even touch the rheostats in my crossover. Someone a long time ago said, "The Great Audio Gods from Heaven will smite you down — if you even turn any tone control away from flat!"

I have no idea why, but that has stuck with me to this day.

8de5e49c-d229-4080-97e8-ab880e0627b6.gif
 
Mr Boochie said:
I don't even touch the rheostats in my crossover. Someone a long time ago said, "The Great Audio Gods from Heaven will smite you down — if you even turn any tone control away from flat!"

I have no idea why, but that has stuck with me to this day.

8de5e49c-d229-4080-97e8-ab880e0627b6.gif
Click to expand...
BION, in my system, flat is the least "musical" setting. A bit of boost in the 1-5kHz range is a welcome addition.

The nice thing about switches and fixed value resistors is that they are instantly repeatable. Turning an Lpad always leaves a bit of doubt.

And, these do not do the same thing as simply boosting/cutting a driver..., they alter the slope of the driver.
 
Mr Boochie said:
I don't even touch the rheostats in my crossover. Someone a long time ago said, "The Great Audio Gods from Heaven will smite you down — if you even turn any tone control away from flat!"

I have no idea why, but that has stuck with me to this day.

8de5e49c-d229-4080-97e8-ab880e0627b6.gif
Click to expand...
You need a pair of these! Nick always designs something unique. His Minions sounded amazing. I think they won 1st place at the annual Parts Express design competition. He put the ports behind the flap in the back - and flap they did!

Nick Minions.jpg
 
nick-minions-jpg.3733439


681c75a8-dbf8-4ea1-b3af-41ab773d1618.gif

I like! :)

TomSc said:
You need a pair of these! Nick always designs something unique. His Minions sounded amazing. I think they won 1st place at the annual Parts Express design competition. He put the ports behind the flap in the back - and flap they did!
Click to expand...
d36d882d-35a2-4a07-9d29-f715ad3b32f2.gif

My reference Minion speakers. Explained. ;)

5d8398b0-01e3-41ba-a3e7-d7355a1326e1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Go Low-End with Ikea's new KALLUPS Speaker. No need for new caps. A wireless Bluetooth speaker that can be used anywhere in the home. Plus, the speakers can be wirelessly linked together, for total home coverage. Line array anyone...! :D

NwvpfqaHiUwq8Ugcptppe9-970-80.jpg.webp
 

When is it justifiable to go for high end crossover components?​

When you and your wallet agree. Right now I need to put gas in the car. LOL. Each to his own. If you have the cabbage and the desire then go for it. Me, I'm on a Parts Express budget at the moment...
 
If you have a idea of what your looking for, how different caps sounds, and are willing to try and see. Never any guarantees, unless your using the same transducers, circuits, points.
If you crossover takes into account many of the same variables modern, and successful loudspeaker designs use, the type (and expense) of certain capacitors, that were in essence being used as a "patch" of sorts, may not be needed, and perhaps make matters worse.
I lean towards the neutral caps such as Jantzen Superior Z's or standard Z's in mid and tweeter circuits, and they IMHO are a safe bet and work well in most circuits because they don't add much if any coloration to the sound. But also, they don't diminish, or grey out like some lower cost poly caps can-esp in tweet circuits. But they are going to be, 'bright' or exciting like some caps are.
All depends on what you're looking for.
 
Last edited:
z-adamson said:
Historically, I have always used Dayton, audyn q4, crosscap, solen. I’ve never opted for high end.

Although I have used Mills resistors and some 14awg to 20awg air core inductors.

For my next crossover build (ewave, JBL 2213h woofer) I am tempted to go for the likes of Duelund caps, 12awg foil air core inductors, mills resistors etc.

But there is a part of me that wonders if it is a waste.

The biggest expense would be the 1.5mh foil inductors at $100 each. There is one of those per crossover. A comparable iron core comes in at about $23.

Duelund caps will run me $50-$75 each compared to less that $10 for Dayton.

I have never gone with exotic parts before and I am tempted just to see what it’s all about.
rience.
Has anyone gone with exotics and regretted it? Is a JBL 2213h based ewave worthy of it in your opinion?
Click to expand...
Just my opinion and experience. Dayton's are fine, but I have found in some instances, like a Great Heil-you better off with plain electrolytics vs Daytons. They can have a tendency to grey out a bit in certain circuits. A safe bet is going Standard Z caps in my experience. Neutral, and won't add, nor more importantly subtract from the signal. Clear and coherent. More $$ then Dayton, but they still won't break the bank in most tweet, mid circuits. They use the same foil as the Superior and Silver Z, just not doubled up.
They are not spacious sounding (but neutral as well) like a Superior Z-but depending on the application- alot of times the difference is smaller than you might think.
Compare them, to say the brighter sounding Q4, you will actually hear more details, and fullness, because it isn't being masked by the upwards tilt of the Q4. IMHO take a look at Gee's cap review. Spot on in my experience.
Most circuits are fine with 18-gauge air core. Woofer circuits need at least 15 gauge, unless it's notch filter.
 
Last edited:
z-adamson said:
Historically, I have always used Dayton, audyn q4, crosscap, solen. I’ve never opted for high end.
Click to expand...
The consenus that I reached with Solen is that that I didn't need bypass capacitors. This was based on input from people that do extensive measurements.

While I have moved to active crossovers, I'm still using the Solens as protection caps.
 
I'm not sure if it's about measurements as it is with sound.
Myself never had alot of luck with bypass caps.
Some seem to.
IMHO if your going to that much trouble just save and put a decent cap in there and be done with it.
Why I mention the Gee cap review-saves a ton of time guessing and debating.
 
I'm not sure about the bypass caps either. The conversations that I remember is that they were used where an electrolytic or inexpensive film would be in place. If there is anything noticeable in that situation, it should be recognized in the HF of the mid driver on up. There is also the thought of overcoming a slow discharge when in parallel with a large capacitor. We should be able see that on a square wave or impulse response? I wouldn't expect an MPK to need this unless it is low quality.

It seems that I came across Tony's capacitor page years ago. I like what he said about the Wima and I have some of those in large value. The price is also right. For personal goals, I just want it do filtering and get out of the way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom