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YAMAHA CR-620 receiver not enough base, any suggestions.

eev776

eev776

New Member
About a month ago I got YAMAHA CR-620 (1977) in mint condition, fantastic looking piece with minimal design, all I had to do is to replace lights, it has great high and mid range, but lows are my question.

It's my first vintage Yamaha receiver, so I'm trying to learn more about it and get more into Yamaha, I use in my other rooms my Technics SA 101 (1979) and Luxman R-104 (1985).

I feel that CR-620 is not giving me enough bass especially while playing records and cassettes, I have to use following setting to achieve pleasing sound: Bass - 5, Treble - 1, Loundness - Flat, Volume 2.5. or Bass - 5, Treble - -1, Loudness 10.
I still feel that I need two more stops to achieve pleasing bass, which I got before using Technics SA 101 or Luxman R-104, my bass at 2 was always more than enough, if I go higher I felt I would blow my speakers.
As speakers I use Kenwood JL-701 which is always worked great and tried with my JBL L20T, same results.

Question: is it something I don't know about setting using Loudness or Yamaha is always low on bass?
Thanks replies.
 

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Any amplifier should not add to nor diminish the original signal, or in other words, change it, it should simply amplify it. If you want to amplify or attenuate a specific frequency range, this is where tone controls and equalizers come into play. It's likely that the frequency range of the tone controls on your Yamaha are set to different areas of the audio spectrum than your Technics or Luxman, so the effect of the controls will be different. There are a few things you can do to satisfy your desire for a specific sound signature. Try repositioning your speakers. Speakers sound signatures are very dependent on their location. Moving them closer or farther away from a wall or raising them off the floor or lowering them can greatly affect how they sound. Try different speakers. If you're looking for more bass, try something with larger woofers or you can add a sub-woofer. Add an equalizer. This will give you much more control over the sound signature than basic tone controls.
 
nakmandan said:
Any amplifier should not add to nor diminish the original signal, or in other words, change it, it should simply amplify it. If you want to amplify or attenuate a specific frequency range, this is where tone controls and equalizers come into play. It's likely that the frequency range of the tone controls on your Yamaha are set to different areas of the audio spectrum than your Technics or Luxman, so the effect of the controls will be different. There are a few things you can do to satisfy your desire for a specific sound signature. Try repositioning your speakers. Speakers sound signatures are very dependent on their location. Moving them closer or farther away from a wall or raising them off the floor or lowering them can greatly affect how they sound. Try different speakers. If you're looking for more bass, try something with larger woofers or you can add a sub-woofer. Add an equalizer. This will give you much more control over the sound signature than basic tone controls.
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Thanks for your reply, I do appreciate it. Very good answer.
I'm currently waiting to receive a new pair of speakers just got brand new JBL L100, it will have larger woofer than anything I have now. Equalizer is another interesting idea!
 
I can say with a high degree of certainty that, if it hasn't been recapped and serviced, it's far from mint condition. See http://www.conradhoffman.com/Yamaha_CR_620_align.htm and read the whole thing, not just the alignment stuff. That said, the 620 is very accurate and I'm a big fan of it. But, if you like a lot of bass, it may not have the power to do it. Depends on the speakers. You can try things like equalizers, but remember that it's only a 35W/ch receiver, so you might clip it.
 
ConradH said:
I can say with a high degree of certainty that, if it hasn't been recapped and serviced, it's far from mint condition. See http://www.conradhoffman.com/Yamaha_CR_620_align.htm and read the whole thing, not just the alignment stuff. That said, the 620 is very accurate and I'm a big fan of it. But, if you like a lot of bass, it may not have the power to do it. Depends on the speakers. You can try things like equalizers, but remember that it's only a 35W/ch receiver, so you might clip it.
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Thank you Conrad for your reply as well!
I see you point about 35W per channel, but my Technics has only 19W/Ch and Luxman 33W/Ch and they doing job great without any adjustments. On Yamaha CR-620 I like sound more when Loudness set to 10 and Volume to 3, but still bass has to be at max +5 which is strange to me while any other receiver doing job great at +2, I keep my Treble Flat or +1 usually.
I use to have a 85W/Ch receiver it was Yamaha RX-V795 (1998), it was a monster size and weight. I get rid of it because I never liked it's look from late 90's and sound was never satisfying playing CD (mid range and highs), but Bass was truly incredible through my JBL L20T, I kept it at Flat all the time.
 
Certainly amps do sound different, I've tinkered with a few amps of that vintage, the bass is probably best described as accurate while others might describe it as thin/lean. You need to determine if your amp is behaving correctly. Suggest play something with a long/sustained bass, eg, a cello draw (Zoe Keating-Into the trees, Track 6, after the tedious whistling intro) or maybe some Bach/organ blast, need to confirm that the bass remains accurate, recapping of psu if it becomes flabby/ill-defined.
 
mbz said:
Certainly amps do sound different, I've tinkered with a few amps of that vintage, the bass is probably best described as accurate while others might describe it as thin/lean. You need to determine if your amp is behaving correctly. Suggest play something with a long/sustained bass, eg, a cello draw (Zoe Keating-Into the trees, Track 6, after the tedious whistling intro) or maybe some Bach/organ blast, need to confirm that the bass remains accurate, recapping of psu if it becomes flabby/ill-defined.
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I'll try that. Thanks a lot!
 
I found some time today to rearrange my speakers in the room, creating a perfect balanced triangle, I must say it works a lot better!
The Bass sounds good at 4 (still not at 2 like my other receivers), with Loudness set to 10, Treble +2 and Volume to 4, but since it delivers sound signature that I desire, it's all what matters.
I was testing it with my Orbital "The Altogether" 2001 CD, it has all kind of variety of sound.
 
superdog said:
Ive had a couple of 620s.Heavy bass is not their forte.Initially I thought it was thin and anemic sounding until I realized it was clean and accurate sounding.Got me hooked on Yamaha gear.
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Interesting that you saying that it's not a CR-620's forte.
I was speaking yesterday with a repair guy here in LA who use to work for Yamaha, he told me exactly the same.
CR-620 or CR-820 was not designed for an extensive bass, it was designed for all around pleasing warm natural sound and real impressive bass starts in CR-1020, CR-2020 models. It's all changed starting from next generation CR-640 in 1979 all Yamaha receivers had a great bass.
 
eev776 said:
Interesting that you saying that it's not a CR-620's forte.
I was speaking yesterday with a repair guy here in LA who use to work for Yamaha, he told me exactly the same.
CR-620 or CR-820 was not designed for an extensive bass, it was designed for all around pleasing warm natural sound and real impressive bass starts in CR-1020, CR-2020 models. It's all changed starting from next generation CR-640 in 1979 all Yamaha receivers had a great bass.
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Quite possible about what was said.I don't know as I never had the xx40 series.I can only speak from my experience.In my opinion these lower powered X20 series are for clean sound at low to moderate volumes with moderately efficient speakers.
 
Yamaha receivers in general aren't know for exaggerated bass. Like Superdog said, clean, and accurate. If your wanting head banging bass, you'll want to go to a higher wpc unit, or some high sensitivity speakers.
 
On the cheap place the speakers in the corners of the room. That will give you the most bass from them. And next on the cheap get a powered subwoofer to add.
 
Oh and one other thing, the numbers you gave us WITH the loudness engaged is outrageous to get bass. Please do a simple check for phase. Make sure the polarity is correct on both speakers. This can really take away bass.
 
plugto said:
Oh and one other thing, the numbers you gave us WITH the loudness engaged is outrageous to get bass. Please do a simple check for phase. Make sure the polarity is correct on both speakers. This can really take away bass.
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Good note, I did checked it's all correct.
That is what I thought as well!
Testing by playing vinyl on my Technics SL-1500C to get bass sound right at this settings seems to me outrageous: Bass at 4-5, Loudness set to 10, Treble +2 and Volume to 4.
Maybe there is something wrong with my YAMAHA, because Technics and Luxman sounds right with same speaker set up. I checked it with my smaller JBL L20T speakers, it's better. I'm waiting to receive my JBL L100 speakers will see how it sounds with those 4 Ohm speakers.
 
Muffled bass is diagnostic for main filter caps gone high resistance. You shouldn't be hearing a huge difference between amps, likely you need to recap the Yamaha. It is rolling up on 45 years of age and electrolytic caps of that vintage do not age well.

Dead main filter caps are likely, as are dead coupling caps between stages.

It's also a 35 W/C amp, it's not going to blow the windows out in your neighbor's house.

edit: Just pulled the schematic, this thing is loaded with 6.3V caps that are all mostly likely resistors by now.

Time for a refurb, Yamaha has a reputation for very, very good sound.
 
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HPMguy said:
Muffled bass is diagnostic for main filter caps gone high resistance. You shouldn't be hearing a huge difference between amps, likely you need to recap the Yamaha. It is rolling up on 45 years of age and electrolytic caps of that vintage do not age well.

Dead main filter caps are likely, as are dead coupling caps between stages.

It's also a 35 W/C amp, it's not going to blow the windows out in your neighbor's house.

edit: Just pulled the schematic, this thing is loaded with 6.3V caps that are all mostly likely resistors by now.

Time for a refurb, Yamaha has a reputation for very, very good sound.
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Thanks for letting me know.
Looks like you right about recap.
I need to find a person who does servicing in LA, I wonder what is average price price to do recap in California.
 
eev776 said:
Thanks for letting me know.
Looks like you right about recap.
I need to find a person who does servicing in LA, I wonder what is average price price to do recap in California.
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Become a subscriber ($25 annual fee) to the forums, you'll have access to the bartertown forums where you can post a service request for a complete restoration from AK reputable technicians, and might find some exquisite deals for an amp/receiver for short $.

Those Yamahas are definitely worth bringing back to full service, but even then, that 35 watts may not be where you need to be bass wise.
 
Thought you might like this short vid. Very simple fix, first just observation of distorted cap. I am sure this guy as some experience, but none the same a simple fix. You should pull the cover off of your receiver and give it a visual. Usually you can discharge the caps by unplugging the unit and then engaging the power button. Who knows you might get lucky.
Nothing to lose.

 
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