New to me EPI M602 Speakers

[india42]

Well I picked up my first pair of EPI speakers last weekend, the M602. Just in case you don't know, EPI used a 'module' that consisted of an 8 inch woofer and an inverted dome tweeter (I think they call them airspring tweeters). These speakers have a similar shape of the Bose 901, but that's where the similarities end. They have 2 of the 'modules' facing back, and a 6 inch woofer and Airspring tweeter facing forward.

Anyway, I thought I better look at the crossover and see what I need for a re-cap. First thing I noticed was the 8 inch woofers appeared to have butyl surrounds, but the 6 inch has foam (at least it looks like foam). The crossover has 2 big blue Sprague 10uf 50 volt caps, and 2 5ohm 5 watt resistors. I am posting this to see if the EPI guys can tell me if these parts (including the drivers) are original. The drivers have square magnets, and it feels like maybe they have been glued. Do those pots on the crossover look like they're missing covers?

More pics to follow, thanks for any help.

 

[india42]

Has anybody actually heard these, I found some threads that mentioned these speakers, but nobody ever really gave an opinion of them. I hooked one of them up and it sounded pretty good, but I think with this design, you really need to have both running at the same time.

I did have another question I forgot to ask above. One of the tweeters is dead. I pulled the speakers from one cabinet and it's dead, open. The thin wire has continuity to the cone, so it must have broke under the cone. I see these tweeters come up online all the time, are all of these the same? These are on Masonite, however some are visibly different, does it matter, or are all of these inverted dome EPI/Epicure tweeters the same?

Thanks again...
Paul

 

[epifanatic]

Has anybody actually heard these, I found some threads that mentioned these speakers, but nobody ever really gave an opinion of them. I hooked one of them up and it sounded pretty good, but I think with this design, you really need to have both running at the same time.

I did have another question I forgot to ask above. One of the tweeters is dead. I pulled the speakers from one cabinet and it's dead, open. The thin wire has continuity to the cone, so it must have broke under the cone. I see these tweeters come up online all the time, are all of these the same? These are on Masonite, however some are visibly different, does it matter, or are all of these inverted dome EPI/Epicure tweeters the same?

Thanks again...
Paul

Those will sound fantastic when running properly!! All of the drivers are original. The woofers have the two piece magnets, make sure you run a bead of glue around that seam as they've been known to separate. While your at it, make sure the magnets on all drivers get a good shot of glue where they attach the their flanges.
It looks like the cross over caps have been replaced, I don't ever recall seeing Sprague's in any I've ever opened.

This will come in handy: http://www.humanspeakers.com/

 

[india42]

I can hardly wait! I've poured over the Human site, and corresponded with Huw, he indicated that foam surrounds were suspicious, possibly making the 6 inch not original. I sent him a couple pics and am waiting for a response, I'm sure he'll confirm. I've seen other EPI speakers that have decayed foam surrounds so I didn't think anything of it.
I did notice that the butyl surrounds look like they're cracking, but I can't see any light through them. I thought I would redo the surrounds, but I can't find any the are butyl.

I'm a big Elvis fan, seen him perform a couple times. 'Shine all the buttons on your green shirt'

Thanks for the info,
Paul

 

[epifanatic]

Keep us posted! The 602 is one of my all time faves.

 

[epifanatic]

Here you go: http://www.simplyspeakers.com/speaker-rubber-edge-repair-kit-rsk-6.html

 

[india42]

Hey, thanks much. I looked at that site but I must have missed those.

This is a project, I think the enclosure for the 6 inch woofer needs to be resealed. I will update with pictures, I'm really looking forward to getting these done, but I don't want to rush it.

Do you know if the EPI/Epicure airspring tweeter are all the same? One of mine is dead, and I'm thinking that buying a new one from Human might create a mismatch. What do you think?

Paul

 

[epifanatic]

Hey, thanks much. I looked at that site but I must have missed those.

This is a project, I think the enclosure for the 6 inch woofer needs to be resealed. I will update with pictures, I'm really looking forward to getting these done, but I don't want to rush it.

Do you know if the EPI/Epicure airspring tweeter are all the same? One of mine is dead, and I'm thinking that buying a new one from Human might create a mismatch. What do you think?

Paul

No problem.
If you want to keep the original look you can send it to Huw for a rebuild.
The masonite flanges are slightly bigger than the plastic, IIRC.

 

[india42]

Not really worried about the look, just thinking that a new one wouldn't have the same sonic characteristics as one from the 70's. Maybe that's not true, I don't know.

 

[luvvinvinyl]

The new ones are aluminum, and are very nice. I prefer them, but they do not sound the same as the masonite tweeters. I have M50s, purchased new, with masonite tweeters,

You can pick up a replacement masonite tweeter here or the Bay.

 

[india42]

Thank you, that's exactly the information I was looking for!

 

[stickman]

Back in the day I had a pair of original EPI 100's with the masonite tweeters and bought a pair of later model 70's with the plastic front tweeters. I mounted the drivers from the 70's in the rear package tray of my then brand new 1985 Honda Civic 4 door sedan and it sounded great compared to most car speakers available back then.

I didn't really notice any large difference in the sound quality of the two styles of air spring tweeters, so I would guess they would be interchangeable other than for the outer frame size dimension issue.

 

[epifanatic]

Yes, The later tweeters were brighter.

 

[Donkey Karma]

Yes, The later tweeters were brighter.

Agreed. I have a M50's playing side by side with some 10's, both newly recapped. The newer tweets have a little more sparkle.

 

[luvvinvinyl]

I understood the OP to be asking about the new Human tweeter. If you buy a new one, or send an old one in for rebuild, either way, you get Huw's new aluminum inverted dome tweeter replacement.

This does not sound like the original, especially not like the masonite tweeter.

It does sound very good, but the OP would need multiple tweeters, to replace all of them, and the resulting speaker would not sound like the original, with masonite tweeters. Very good, but much more 'modern' in sound than the originals. Emphasis on detail, 'air', however you want to describe it.

The EPI hallmark was presenting music that compelled you to keep listening. The New England sound was characterized by errors of omission, rather than comission. They might have rolled off earlier than other speakers, but the presentation was very musical, not fatiguing, just enjoyable to listen to them.

OP, pick up one masonite tweeter, and you are good to go. There are usually some around, on offer.

 

[ChrisNC]

I *believe* the sensitivity of the new or rebuilt tweeters is higher than the originals. (The new tweeters have a sensitivity of 90 db, but I can't find sensitivity specs for the original speakers. Maybe someone knows?) If so, rebuilt tweeters with the original woofers and crossovers will sound bright even if the rebuilt tweeter has the same frequency response as the original.

 

[india42]

Thanks so much for all the comments, and yes, luvvinvinyl hit the nail on the head, one of my questions was specifically, if I have Huw rebuild my original, or I buy a new one from him, will the sound of the new tweeter match the other 5 that are currently there. I figured that the new one, which is probably higher quality (i.e. better detail, brighter, etc.) might not match well with the older originals.

Now a couple of the other questions are crossover related. I think that epifanatic answered one of them, the capacitors are most likely updated. I looked online and could not find any with Sprague capacitors. They look to be high quality, do you guys think I should replace them? I'm kind of leaning that way, since I already have them out, just don't know how old they are. The other question was about the pots, they look like they are missing the covers. I can see the resistive 'wire' and the wiper, doesn't seem like a good way to keep it clean. I contacted Huw at Human, and he mentioned that he has new crossovers that don't have the pots. I really like to keep things as original as possible, just in case I decide to sell these...after I use them for a VERY LONG TIME!! These are my first set of EPI speakers, however I have wanted some for years, I think the simple crossover is genius.

Thanks for the help guys...
Paul

 

[epifanatic]

There were covers on those pots at one time. They were glued on and tended to rattle loose over time. I remember a guy saying he found them in the insulation.:scratch2:

 

[india42]

Hmmm, I pulled the stuffing out of these, maybe I better check in the bag I put it in.

 

[c-atle-79bay]

Wow India42 your not wasting any time on these at all. Sorry to hear about the dead tweeter.