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Cutting Edge - Tomlinmgt System and Hospitality

MikeT.

MikeT.

Displaced Irish Cajun
:yes:First, anyone interested in sub-woofers and room acoustics should listen to Tomlinmgt (Michael).

Second, thanks to Michael for inviting me to hear his Altec 19's before he took them out of rotation.

Third, his listening room and system are amazing. Room acoustic treatments of all sorts and type are everywhere and placed just about perfectly, except for that one hot spot he told me about otherwise I wouldn't have known about it. He is a man who knows of what he speaks when he talks about acoustics.

And subs.....two larger subs behind the listening position and two homemade bucket subs near the corners behind the Altec 19's.

The 19's were driven with a Tube Audio Design TAD-60 amplifier but I forget the tube linestage preamp. Computer audio through a M1-DAC.
The sound was amazing, soundstage left to right, just about perfect, (which I am certain has a lot to do with his acoustic fanaticism) with a depth that was very good!! Fanaticism is a complement in this case.:D

Michael coined a new phrase yesterday, or at least I heard it for the first time. Speakers must have "a blink factor", the ability to produce orchestral scale and percussive dynamics that surprise.

The Altec 19's....WOW, a blink factor in spades....and with about 30 watts per channel tube power.

Thanks again for the "blink factor" demo. Great guy, amazing gear!
 
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I have never doubted him and what you just described does not surprise me at all. :thmbsp:
 
Dang, that's pretty generous, Mike. I noticed you didn't suggest listening to me for marriage/relationship advice.....smart move. As far as the acoustics and subs thing....man, that's one-third unstructured research, one-third shotgun approach implementation, and one-third dumb luck. Evidently I talk a good game, and I'd say my smoke and mirrors technique were well honed if it weren't for your experienced and discriminating ears being behind the positive critique. Whatever the case, I'm honored to get your nod of approval and look forward to having you over again soon. I better get crackin' on those Betas.

For those interested here's the rig.....

IMG_0005.JPG

u3yzebe2.jpg



Windows Laptop >
Audioquest Cinnamon USB >
Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 >
Cardas SPDIF >
Musical Fidelity M1 DAC >
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-150 tube preamp > >>
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-60 tube amplifier (biased for single ended triode with Gold Lion KT-77's) >
Blue Jeans Belden 5000UE>
Altec 19's (recapped)

>> distributed bass (crossed over at 70Hz)
Rane AC23 active crossover >
Phase Linear 700B >
(2)"Bucket Sub" (stereo, front wall)

(2) Dayton SA-240 plate amp
(2) DIY sealed sub, 1.5 cuft, 12" Dayton Titanic Mk III (mono, rear wall)

Furman PL Plus conditioner/power strip
Grant Fidelity PC 1.5 on DAC
Pangea AC14SE on preamp and amp

- Michael
 
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Oh crap, left that off the list. Edited to show current favorite is MF M1. Rega is close second with the Altec 19's. Atoll 100 is just a little too aggressive....better suited for something more laid back.
 
Yeah, that M1 strikes a good balance between the mellow Rega and aggressive Atoll. Compared to the Rega it lets a little more out of the recording without overdoing it.
 
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As far as the acoustics and subs thing....man, that's one-third unstructured research, one-third shotgun approach implementation, and one-third dumb luck.
Click to expand...

One of the interesting topics discussed yesterday centered around how much focus is put on the equipment and not on the acoustics when the latter has a much bigger impact overall.

Just experimenting with the limited acoustic treatments I've made so far, its become more and more obvious that I need more work. Maybe some bass traps.....yea, that's the ticket:D

No matter how you've come by your results, hearing your system AND seeing the various diffusion panels, bass traps and other acoustic treatments made a huge impression and helped me immensely.
 
That is some system. Love the fact you have a couple of bucket subs in the mix. You must rate their performance.
 
acdalek said:
That is some system. Love the fact you have a couple of bucket subs in the mix. You must rate their performance.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment.

I need to play with the bucket subs a little more, but measuring their response in the middle of the room away from any boundary surface loading and also a foot-and-a-half from the front wall shows most of their output is occurring above 50 Hz. Here are the measurements taken with them in their current location near the front wall (click on image to enlarge). Measurements taken with a sub positioned in the middle of room (so there is no SBIR, or boundary surface loading) looked a bit more like the left sub's measurements when it's in its normal location...which has no corner loading.

Left sub (closer to middle of wall).....

y4aju2yj.jpg


Right sub (two feet from right front corner)....

upa5umuv.jpg


They won't pressurize the room and rumble in the lower part of th first octave like the sealed subs with 12" Titanic drivers will, but they add a nice tactile element to LF reproduction. I think Mike can probably confirm kick drum reproduction is both fat and robust which you feel inside your body as well as punchy and fast which is felt outside the body. The bucket subs pretty much contribute to the latter. It's authoritative and balanced without having to be loud.....to me the fundamental benefit of distributed bass and a favorable room response (afforded by what some may consider extensive bass trapping).

And here is how the DIY 12" Dayton Titanics measure...

e3agysaq.jpg


And here's all subs blowin' and goin'. You can see a gentle roll-off begins around 50 Hz with a noticeable drop off at 70 which is where I have all crossovers set for roll-off to transition to the mains. The gentle roll off that starts at 50 could be the fourth-order slopes of the active crossovers at play...maybe someone can comment on this. Whatever the case, it works nicely for integration with the mains as it's pretty seamless. Anyway, the measurement of the distributed bass....

mysy4u9y.jpg
 
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What a wonderfully informative answer. I find the measurements really interesting especially when explained to less technical listeners as you do. Thank you.
 
Omg Michael, your system and knowledge , amazing

tomlinmgt said:
Dang, that's pretty generous, Mike. I noticed you didn't suggest listening to me for marriage/relationship advice.....smart move. As far as the acoustics and subs thing....man, that's one-third unstructured research, one-third shotgun approach implementation, and one-third dumb luck. Evidently I talk a good game, and I'd say my smoke and mirrors technique were well honed if it weren't for your experienced and discriminating ears being behind the positive critique. Whatever the case, I'm honored to get your nod of approval and look forward to having you over again soon. I better get crackin' on those Betas.

For those interested here's the rig.....

uqyvyve4.jpg



Windows Laptop >
Monoprice 12' USB >
Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 >
Cardas SPDIF >
Musical Fidelity M1 DAC >
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-150 tube preamp > >>
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-60 tube amplifier (biased for single ended triode with Gold Lion KT-77's) >
Blue Jeans Belden 5000UE>
Altec 19's (recapped)

>> distributed bass (crossed over at 70Hz)
Rane AC23 active crossover >
Phase Linear 700B >
(2)"Bucket Sub" (stereo, front wall)

(2) Dayton SA-240 plate amp
(2) DIY sealed sub, 1.5 cuft, 12" Dayton Titanic Mk III (mono, rear wall)

Furman PL Plus conditioner/power strip
Grant Fidelity PC 1.5 on DAC
Pangea AC14SE on preamp and amp

- Michael
Click to expand...
 
Michael, you are one of my favourite posters here. Your system really is the epitome of what I am aiming for. One day, one day.. :)
 
MWalt said:
If only I had a room big enough to be worthy of speakers as large as Altec 19's...
Click to expand...

Then you could bitch about having to move them around like I do. :D

Like I told Mike Saturday, I try to exploit the freedom my listening space offers me to the fullest. Perhaps to a fault as I do have some designs that need just a little more space than my 16x20 room.....but the acoustic treatments allow me to fudge a little bit on speaker/room matching. I can barely pull it off with the 19's. Sitting one foot closer to them than I do and I'm inside their zone of HF beaming and moving the listening position back from "the spot" puts me in a rear boundary layer boosted LF response zone...which takes articulation away from mid and upper bass. Big horns need big space.....or so it seems based on my time with the 19's.
 
canuckaudiog said:
Michael, you are one of my favourite posters here. Your system really is the epitome of what I am aiming for. One day, one day.. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks c-dog.

Sorry again for being the "acoustic treatments Nazi" in your sound stage thread. I'm a little over zealous when it comes to acoustics. I like to see folks get the best results possible given the circumstances because in most cases it requires not a lot of effort for a hell of a lot of improvement. For many it's harder to get that to sink in than it needs to be.
 
You need to do a system thread Michael in "members systems" (unless you have one?)... For instance, what is that wooden thing on the wall behind the speakers? A diffusor? Is that home made? Love to see you go into some serious detail about the acoustic treatments you've got going on (unless you already have, then ... a link?)
 
matteos said:
You need to do a system thread Michael in "members systems" (unless you have one?)... For instance, what is that wooden thing on the wall behind the speakers? A diffusor? Is that home made? Love to see you go into some serious detail about the acoustic treatments you've got going on (unless you already have, then ... a link?)
Click to expand...

I don't....but I guess I probably should. Well, I take that back. I posted this earlier this year....

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=537607


It's all in a constant state of flux...electronics, speakers, acoustic treatments....none of it is sacred and I reach one level just to get to the next (with maximum bang for the buck always front of mind), sometimes taking a step or two back to move forward. It would be nice to have some sort of journal of my audio excursions and I suppose that would be as good a place as any to have a chronological record of it all. Maybe here in the next few weeks I'll get something up and get started on that.

The devices on the front wall are indeed diffusers. Two different types, actually with the outer two units being 11-well 1D QRD diffusers and the center three being a stepped diffuser that the designer calls the "Leanfuser". On the ground behind the mains are poly diffusers. All diffusers have absorption behind them with 4" of OC703 behind the poly's and 6" of Roxul SafeNSound behind the QRDs and Leanfusers. I did indeed build them myself (as is the case with all my acoustic treatments) and details can be found in these two threads...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=535105

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=547132
 
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tomlinmgt said:
Dang, that's pretty generous, Mike. I noticed you didn't suggest listening to me for marriage/relationship advice.....smart move. As far as the acoustics and subs thing....man, that's one-third unstructured research, one-third shotgun approach implementation, and one-third dumb luck. Evidently I talk a good game, and I'd say my smoke and mirrors technique were well honed if it weren't for your experienced and discriminating ears being behind the positive critique. Whatever the case, I'm honored to get your nod of approval and look forward to having you over again soon. I better get crackin' on those Betas.

For those interested here's the rig.....

u3yzebe2.jpg



Windows Laptop >
Monoprice 12' USB >
Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 >
Cardas SPDIF >
Musical Fidelity M1 DAC >
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-150 tube preamp > >>
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-60 tube amplifier (biased for single ended triode with Gold Lion KT-77's) >
Blue Jeans Belden 5000UE>
Altec 19's (recapped)

>> distributed bass (crossed over at 70Hz)
Rane AC23 active crossover >
Phase Linear 700B >
(2)"Bucket Sub" (stereo, front wall)

(2) Dayton SA-240 plate amp
(2) DIY sealed sub, 1.5 cuft, 12" Dayton Titanic Mk III (mono, rear wall)

Furman PL Plus conditioner/power strip
Grant Fidelity PC 1.5 on DAC
Pangea AC14SE on preamp and amp

- Michael
Click to expand...

Very nice Mike! I dont see it listed in your gear list, but those two amps on blocks....aren't those Threshold Stasis 3 amps?
 
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