The 'best' budget phono stage.

catman

catman

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G'day all, in general terms I'm very happy to see that vinyl records are popular again as evidenced by the burgeoning market for 'outboard' phono stages going from quite inexpensive to 'very' expensive.

As I mentioned in another thread the other day I seem to have acquired a few phono stages and it is interesting that I rate quite a inexpensive one rather highly.

In the past I have mentioned my general dislike for full feedback op amp based phono stage. These are popular and most of the designs available seem to use that general circuit approach. They work well but I personally do not 'like' their general sound quality. They are quite 'adequate' though and some have useful refinements like switchable input capacitance loading.

My 'tick' goes to the TCC TC-750. Although it has a very different sound to my reference DIY ESP P06, I find that TCC TC-750 a very smooth, musical sounding and 'listenable' phono stage with a free uncompressed sound, a trait I rather like. It is entirely based on discrete transistor circuitry and that appeals to me.

I'll admit that there was a time when I was very 'anti op amp', at least until I built my first DIY ESP P06 phono stage, and that completely changed my mind about op amp circuitry. It uses op amps in a very clever circuit. The P06 has made me realise that op amps aren't the problem, it is the circuit design in how they are used, in my opinion.

Anyway the TCC TC-750 is a well made unit with high quality soldering and good quality compoments. Metal film resistors are used (mandatory in low noise applications, in my opinion), good transistors and the capacitors are good quality. There are a few electrolytic capacitors in the signal path but that isn't a problem as I see it. After all, so does the ESP P06!

The only real quibble that I have about the TCC TC-750 is the supplied wallwart which is of the 'switch mode' variety and it does produce audible (prickle) noise in the output (at least mine did). I have changed mine to run off a 12 volt DC gel cell battery and the noise floor is now superbly quiet, and is a delight to listen to. I've also changed the input loading capacitors from 220 picofarads to 100 picofarads WIMA polypropylenes, mainly to optimise the overall capacitance loading with my M97xE.

As I've said before it has a different 'sound' to my DIY ESP P06, but is no less enjoyable to listen to. Each to their own of course, but purely on the basis of non fatiguing sound quality, I regard the TCC TC-750 as very nice and is recommended in a new vinyl playback system. Its price may be budget, but its performance is anything but! Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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Felix , have you found that if you leave this preamp on , powered-up , all the time it sounds better ?

I have the TC-760LC and after about 24hrs of continuous being on it sounds better than when used 'cold'
 
G'day mate, I generally don't but I can see some advantage in doing that for reasons of thermal circuit stabilisation. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
I have a P06 also and I know what that sound is :) I have many more cartridge combinations to test it against, but that will be very interesting. It is probably the most refined and even handed phono stage I have ever heard :yes:

I have a TCC TC750LC and it's quite nice. I would definitely rate it as at least intro-audiophile :music: I have many more cartridge lash-ups to test against this one too :scratch2:

I have an ART Phono Plus (gen 1) and it's very enjoyable for rock and some jazz, but it is a feedback design and really overpowers the nuances between cartridges. Many sound so similar, you are not sure you made a change. On some others (Nagaoka's mostly) it is dismal.

I have a GE 23292 external and it's only use is as testing tool for circuits as it's not all that refined. But it comes with built-in battery power capability, so that's really nice for testing. It's not bad sounding, but fairly quiet.

And, I'm waiting on one more classic - and RTS Model 405 which was a studio (commercial) phono stage. All discrete and very adjustable. We'll see what it sounds like in comparison :scratch2:

Point being, once you have either settled on one cartridge type, or have a library, it is almost a requirement to see how your choices stack up for synergy :smoke:

In the end, I'll sell the ones that don't cut it, and keep one or two for use. But, I'll know how it goes :D
 
catman said:
The P06 has made me realise that op amps aren't the problem, it is the circuit design in how they are used, in my opinion.
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Well yes, and also modern op-amps are better suited to this sort of task than those of the past, so using discrete transistors is still one good approach, but it's no longer the only one.

I know Burson Audio doesn't want to hear this, but... :D
 
G'day mate, yes op amps have certainly improved since the early days. Just imagine if the humble 741 was still the best we had.

Well it is good for some things, but not for high quality audio. I give thanks every day for the OPA2134! :yes: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
I have the TC-754 which has the additional aux inputs for mp3 players etc. I think it sounds pretty good - anyone know if its the same phono preamp as the TC-750?
 
I have a Project Phono Box II and it sounds better than the receivers on board one. No idea if it is a op amp design though.
 
G'day all, 59volvo, I have read somewhere that the same phono stage circuit is used in all TCC models.

That would make good economic sense. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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I own the TCC-TC-778 which I use with my Dual 1229/M97xE in a HT system.. I use it stock and it sounds pretty respectable. Although the RIAA section sounds fine. I wasn't too impressed with the limited ability of the 78 equilization input/switching section and found it rather bland. Along with the ART DJ Pro II, the TCC's are nice budget phonos that perform above their very modest price level.
 
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catman said:
G'day all, 59volvo, I have read somewhere that the same phono stage circuit is used in all TCC models.

That would make good economic sense. Regards, Felix aka catman.
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I always recommend the TC-750 to people who don't have a phono input. I kind of doubt that the all the TCC pre-amps use the same circuitry. There is a huge difference (10-15 dB) in S/N ratio between the $50 units compared to the $30 units.
 
G'day mate, you could well be correct on this. I did read that statement earlier quoted somewhere, but what you say is true so there must be some circuit differences between models. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
grooveman said:
I own the TCC-TC-778 which I use with my Dual 1229/M97xE in a HT system.. I use it stock and it sounds pretty respectable. Although the RIAA section sounds fine. I wasn't too impressed with the limited ability of the 78 equilization input/switching section and found it rather bland. Along with the ART DJ Pro II, the TCC's are nice budget phonos that perform above their very modest price level.
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Agreed :)
 
Thanks for sharing your views Felix: it is always good to know which gear maximizes the quality/price ratio.
 
G'day mate, well the 640P, yes head to head against a friends DIY ESP P06 and the 640P wasn't bad, but not really in the league of the P06.

The others? No, however I believe, being of the full feedback op amp circuit variety I suspect I know what their general 'sound' is like. Good, but not my thing. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
I have a TCC TC750L. I have not really paid much attention to sound quality of it because it is doing a job for me and I have not compared it yet to anything else. I will say though, that it is doing well by me. I first tried it between my Onkyo TX R705 and my Denon DP47f. The Onkyo has a lousy phono stage by design. Anyway, I didn't get it, lots of noise that I could not find reason for until I traced it to the POS $400 cart on the Denon. So I need to replace the cart and re-visit that.
Right now I have it hooked up to my Sansui 8080db which is doing vinyl digitizing duty for me currently, but it sure sounds nice! I have not yet compared the TC750L with the native Sansui phono stage, but I will when I get a chance. I'm betting I'll find the native Sansui Phono stage more than decent because it is an entirely different design than the Onkyo and the TCC can go back to the Onkyo based system so I can get the Denon TT going.:yes:
I'll say this though, I did try a Rega Mini Phono Stage which is 2.5 times the price and it was not as good as the TCC!:thmbsp:
 
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