Arkay
Lunatic Member
I made a snap decision today, in just seconds, which I hope/think I'll be happy with, but want to run it by the wise folks here for comment.
SHORT VERSION:
I decided I wanted a turntable upgrade. Almost bought a Pioneer PL-C590, but then stumbled (almost literally) across a PL-L1, the big (Japan-market only) Pioneer linear-tracking TT, and in a very quick "snap" decision, got it instead. Pics (of same model, not mine) at bottom.
FULL STORY:
I'll be getting a modest sum of money next Saturday, and I decided to spend part of it on an upgrade to my system, probably in the form of a better turntable, if I could find one I liked enough, at a fair price. Up to now I've been playing around using a number of turntables, but mostly mid-fi stuff like a few Duals. a faux-marble-plinth Kenwood, a half-decent Denon, a couple Technics, lower-end Micro, an okay Luxman, etc... None of them bad, but also nothing really nice or "audiophile", and I believe the TT to be one of the weakest links in my system.
Part of that belief may just be visual and psychological: I love the looks of the fancy "exotic" or "audiophile" TTs we all drool over in pics (and occasionally in shops}. I've come close to buying a really nice Thorens or two, a big VPI once, and a few others, but somehow haven't, often because the prices were just a little more (or sometimes a lot more) than I felt I could afford or could justify for a TT. Still, I've had in mind for a while that I "need" (want. actually) to upgrade my TT at some point.
So I've been sort of "window shopping" for a couple days, for turntables. Up until today, I found only one I liked: a Pioneer PL-C590, iwith an older/basic type SME tonearm. A direct drive, this is part of the "Series 20" line, and supposedly one of Pioneer's best TTs. The deck itself looks almost new: not a scratch on it, and with a little gentle cleaning or wax-polishing, it will look literally brand-new. I'd rate it easily a 9 out of 10. It has a heavy metal plinth with what appears to be an almost metallic, enamel-like finish (deep grey/graphite/anthracite color). Not a scratch on it, and only a few tiny/faint marks on the dust cover which would easily polish out. It has a cool needle gauge to use for speed adjustment, instead of the usual strobe, and from what I've read, is fairly rare. It radiates "quality", and I think I'd be happy with it for a good while.
It also would come with a small Denon pre-stage amplifier (transformer in a box). The tonearm was the weak spot:it appeared to be missing the little support-arm thing that you drape the anti-skate weight over (the weight on the thin wire is there: just nothing to drape it over). The arm-lift mechanism also didn't work right, and the height of the arm looked too close to the height of the platter-top to my eyes (the platter is thick/high on this model), so VTA could be a problem. I suspect the original seller may have taken his worst old SME arm he had and put it on an otherwise superbly-maintained deck before selling it, just to have an arm on it. He may have wanted to keep whatever arm was on it before. That is pure speculation on my part, but the suspicion is further reinforced by the fact that the thing had a Shure M44E cartridge (with original stylus) on it. Someone with a deck that nice, in that good a condition, wouldn't usually use that arm set-up and so cheap a cart on it, would they? The arm wasn't even anchored really securely to the base. Looked great at first look, but just didn't hold up to close inspection.
Still, the deck looked really nice, and SME parts AFAIK are all available so the arm wasn't really a big issue. I thought maybe long-term I could look for an original Pioneer arm for the deck, and switch the SME arm to another good deck (maybe a Thorens?), or just fix it up, add a thin riser to get better height on it, and keep using it on the PL--C590. Even a basic SME is still a good tonearm.
I told the seller (an old friend in the wholesale end of the business here) that I'd probably get it come Saturday, but I didn't put down a deposit or explicitly commit to buying it or explicitly ask him to hold it, so I wasn't really committed to getting it, nor he to holding it.
Not sure why I hesitated to make the solid commitment, but maybe it was fate, because just a minute or two after leaving his place, I'm walking down the street when I see something something VERY unusual. Sitting literally on the road, right on the asphalt near an intersection and at the end of a row of parked cars and trucks, is a BIG, BlACK turntable -- not a small, average turntable but one of those out--sized black-and-chrome things that just commands your attention.
I look closer, and it turns out to be a Pioneer PL-L! !
This is the big, original Japan-market-only linear tracking TT, sort of a statement piece and a technical marvel back in its day. The black wood plinth looks like it could use a lick of oil; I'd rate it from first impressions at about 7.5 or 8 out of 10 because of that. The metal parts are shiny, though, and generally it looks good, except for the slightly dry look to the plinth.
So there I am, gawking at this thing in the road in wonder. I look around, and there is just no one there! It almost seems that someone had just abandoned it there as junk for the taking, but as much as I would be delighted to just pick that thing up for free, I KNOW that can't be the case with a thing like this TT, in this particular area near so many wholesale dealers. So as I am looking around for the owner, I see a dealer I know standing across the street next to an employee with a hand-cart, waiting for the light to change. Ah! That explains it; he just bought it off the back of a bird-dog's truck, probably already took the rest of the purchase, and is coming back to pick this up this last piece. My timing was perfect: fifteen minutes earlier or two minutes later and I'd never even have seen it.
He sees me there beside the deck, smiles at me from across the road and holds up three fingers, indicating a price of three thousand Hong Kong dollars, which is about US$385. A this point I'm thinking that while I have no concrete idea what these sell for, it sounds pretty reasonable. This price is a little less than the other guy was asking for the PL-C590 (including the Denon pre-stage), and without knowing their relative values, this one at least SEEMS more impressive, more desireable.
He crosses the road, and we talk for a minute. He says he tried it out before buying it, and the motors work; the TT turns and the arm moves/tracks normally. It was just brought over from Japan, apparently. Just needs a little cosmetic tune-up before he'd sell it for over a thousand at retail. If I want it as-is right then, he's willing to quick-flip it to me for the US$385 price. Otherwise he'll take it and clean it up himself for a more profitable resale.
I look at it and feel that I want it. I want it at least a little MORE than the PL-C590. I have no real idea if I am over-paying or under-paying, but I'm guessing if I clean it up myself I can't lose money on it, on sheer looks alone. If it plays even just a smidge better than the cheaper mid-fi stuff I now have, but looks as cool as it does, it's worth that much to me.
Snap decision: if he'll accept a deposit and hold it until Saturday for me, it's a deal. He thinks a moment, and agrees. I pull out the cash I have in my pocket and pay the deposit on it, securing the sale. I'll pay the rest and get it from him on Saturday. [I know the seller, who has been in the audio business here for many years (forty or so, anyway), so I'm not worried about this arrangement. I have his name and phone number, too.]
I liked both of these turntables, and might still end up getting both if the PL-C590 doesn't sell too soon (I'll have more budget for audio in about three weeks) , but I made the snap decision in favor of the PL-L1. Both TTs are pretty rare, but I suspect the PL-L1 may be harder to find, especially outside of Japan. They are both direct drive, but the linear tracking is more unusual. The linear tracking is theoretically potentially superior, but technically more challenging to make work right (and keep working right) and may require more difficult maintenance over time. I didn't have specs in my head to compare them at the time of the decision, but I just felt the PL-L1 was a better grab. Hope I've bought something precious, and haven't bought a maintenance nightmare or a boat anchor with historical interest.
To be honest. I think I was just mostly impressed with the larger size and more exotic, higher-tech look of the linear tracker. It is a big, black (with silver) BEAST of a turntable, in real life. More impressive in person than in the pics I find of it online. Easily 50 percent (or more) larger than the PL-C950. It would make more practical sense for me to buy the smaller deck, but I LIKE the big decks more. :yes:
The choice also solves any questions about the iffy SME tone arm on the other deck, and the eventual price was a bit cheaper for the PL-L1, so I actually chose the cheaper deck (based on purchase price, not necessarily on value), so I saved some cash. I think on sheer visual impact and rarity, the PL-L1 is probably a better bet as a "collectible investment", if any audio gear can be called that. But mostly it was just gut instinct and that "I want it" feeling with the PL-L1 that made up my mind.
Because of the wooden plinth, the PL-L1 is lighter at 26 kg than the PL-C590 with its metal plinth, which weighs in at 31.5 kg. On a buck-per-pound basis, though, it was close to a coin-flip between them.
The PL-C590 may be the more robust because of the cast-metal plinth construction, but both have a generally heavy, solid feel to them, and appear to be well-made.
:scratch2: Did I choose right?
I THINK so, but I won't know for sure until Saturday when I get it and have a chance to inspect the purchase more closely and at leisure, but I'm optimistic that I'm going to love this beast and be happy with it. It was such a quick thing that I didn't even get a clear look at the cartridge in the TT I bought, so I'm not even sure what it is. Stupid of me, I know. :thumbsdn:
Of course, I have my fingers crossed that it works great, and that all I'll have to do is renew (oil/wax/polish) the cosmetics and do a basic maintenance-level lube job on the mechanisms. I'm slightly concerned about any really bac technical problems with the linear-tracking mechanism, as I'm not familiar with its particular complexities, but trust the expertise of the dealer (he repairs gear expertly, I know for a fact) who said it is running well as-is. I'll definitely be looking for a service manual for it, and scouting out who has the most expertise with these things around here. I want to make sure it is in tip-top shape, if I'm going to keep it for my main system "upgrade".
IF I've chosen well, I may have finally found a turntable that will be good enough sonically, pretty and "exotic" enough visually, and just generally "cool" enough to keep me happy for a good long time. My emphasis this year is "fewer but better", and if this deck turns out to be as good as I hope it is, then for sure I'll get rid of all the mid-fi decks I still have around, except one or two only [maybe one for testing junky or questionable records on, one for playing CD-4 quad records, and one old Dual for 78 (and 16) rpm records. Maybe not even that many.].
I THINK the PL-L1 is/should be the best-quality turntable I've ever owned, and am hoping it actually performs as impressively as it looks. Please correct me if I'm a deluded idiot who made the wrong snap decision and bought a flawed headache instead of a rare dream find. Comments from owners or former owners especially appreciated.
PICs/LINKS:
[Having trouble posting pics, so some links first:]
Here is a link to pics/ info on the PL-C590 that I didn't grab, and may end up not getting at all: http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PLC590/PLC590.html
Here is a Japanese listing that contains many pics of the PL-L1 turntable that I AM getting: http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d82796813
SHORT VERSION:
I decided I wanted a turntable upgrade. Almost bought a Pioneer PL-C590, but then stumbled (almost literally) across a PL-L1, the big (Japan-market only) Pioneer linear-tracking TT, and in a very quick "snap" decision, got it instead. Pics (of same model, not mine) at bottom.
FULL STORY:
I'll be getting a modest sum of money next Saturday, and I decided to spend part of it on an upgrade to my system, probably in the form of a better turntable, if I could find one I liked enough, at a fair price. Up to now I've been playing around using a number of turntables, but mostly mid-fi stuff like a few Duals. a faux-marble-plinth Kenwood, a half-decent Denon, a couple Technics, lower-end Micro, an okay Luxman, etc... None of them bad, but also nothing really nice or "audiophile", and I believe the TT to be one of the weakest links in my system.
Part of that belief may just be visual and psychological: I love the looks of the fancy "exotic" or "audiophile" TTs we all drool over in pics (and occasionally in shops}. I've come close to buying a really nice Thorens or two, a big VPI once, and a few others, but somehow haven't, often because the prices were just a little more (or sometimes a lot more) than I felt I could afford or could justify for a TT. Still, I've had in mind for a while that I "need" (want. actually) to upgrade my TT at some point.
So I've been sort of "window shopping" for a couple days, for turntables. Up until today, I found only one I liked: a Pioneer PL-C590, iwith an older/basic type SME tonearm. A direct drive, this is part of the "Series 20" line, and supposedly one of Pioneer's best TTs. The deck itself looks almost new: not a scratch on it, and with a little gentle cleaning or wax-polishing, it will look literally brand-new. I'd rate it easily a 9 out of 10. It has a heavy metal plinth with what appears to be an almost metallic, enamel-like finish (deep grey/graphite/anthracite color). Not a scratch on it, and only a few tiny/faint marks on the dust cover which would easily polish out. It has a cool needle gauge to use for speed adjustment, instead of the usual strobe, and from what I've read, is fairly rare. It radiates "quality", and I think I'd be happy with it for a good while.
It also would come with a small Denon pre-stage amplifier (transformer in a box). The tonearm was the weak spot:it appeared to be missing the little support-arm thing that you drape the anti-skate weight over (the weight on the thin wire is there: just nothing to drape it over). The arm-lift mechanism also didn't work right, and the height of the arm looked too close to the height of the platter-top to my eyes (the platter is thick/high on this model), so VTA could be a problem. I suspect the original seller may have taken his worst old SME arm he had and put it on an otherwise superbly-maintained deck before selling it, just to have an arm on it. He may have wanted to keep whatever arm was on it before. That is pure speculation on my part, but the suspicion is further reinforced by the fact that the thing had a Shure M44E cartridge (with original stylus) on it. Someone with a deck that nice, in that good a condition, wouldn't usually use that arm set-up and so cheap a cart on it, would they? The arm wasn't even anchored really securely to the base. Looked great at first look, but just didn't hold up to close inspection.
Still, the deck looked really nice, and SME parts AFAIK are all available so the arm wasn't really a big issue. I thought maybe long-term I could look for an original Pioneer arm for the deck, and switch the SME arm to another good deck (maybe a Thorens?), or just fix it up, add a thin riser to get better height on it, and keep using it on the PL--C590. Even a basic SME is still a good tonearm.
I told the seller (an old friend in the wholesale end of the business here) that I'd probably get it come Saturday, but I didn't put down a deposit or explicitly commit to buying it or explicitly ask him to hold it, so I wasn't really committed to getting it, nor he to holding it.
Not sure why I hesitated to make the solid commitment, but maybe it was fate, because just a minute or two after leaving his place, I'm walking down the street when I see something something VERY unusual. Sitting literally on the road, right on the asphalt near an intersection and at the end of a row of parked cars and trucks, is a BIG, BlACK turntable -- not a small, average turntable but one of those out--sized black-and-chrome things that just commands your attention.
I look closer, and it turns out to be a Pioneer PL-L! !
This is the big, original Japan-market-only linear tracking TT, sort of a statement piece and a technical marvel back in its day. The black wood plinth looks like it could use a lick of oil; I'd rate it from first impressions at about 7.5 or 8 out of 10 because of that. The metal parts are shiny, though, and generally it looks good, except for the slightly dry look to the plinth. So there I am, gawking at this thing in the road in wonder. I look around, and there is just no one there! It almost seems that someone had just abandoned it there as junk for the taking, but as much as I would be delighted to just pick that thing up for free, I KNOW that can't be the case with a thing like this TT, in this particular area near so many wholesale dealers. So as I am looking around for the owner, I see a dealer I know standing across the street next to an employee with a hand-cart, waiting for the light to change. Ah! That explains it; he just bought it off the back of a bird-dog's truck, probably already took the rest of the purchase, and is coming back to pick this up this last piece. My timing was perfect: fifteen minutes earlier or two minutes later and I'd never even have seen it.
He sees me there beside the deck, smiles at me from across the road and holds up three fingers, indicating a price of three thousand Hong Kong dollars, which is about US$385. A this point I'm thinking that while I have no concrete idea what these sell for, it sounds pretty reasonable. This price is a little less than the other guy was asking for the PL-C590 (including the Denon pre-stage), and without knowing their relative values, this one at least SEEMS more impressive, more desireable.
He crosses the road, and we talk for a minute. He says he tried it out before buying it, and the motors work; the TT turns and the arm moves/tracks normally. It was just brought over from Japan, apparently. Just needs a little cosmetic tune-up before he'd sell it for over a thousand at retail. If I want it as-is right then, he's willing to quick-flip it to me for the US$385 price. Otherwise he'll take it and clean it up himself for a more profitable resale.
I look at it and feel that I want it. I want it at least a little MORE than the PL-C590. I have no real idea if I am over-paying or under-paying, but I'm guessing if I clean it up myself I can't lose money on it, on sheer looks alone. If it plays even just a smidge better than the cheaper mid-fi stuff I now have, but looks as cool as it does, it's worth that much to me.
Snap decision: if he'll accept a deposit and hold it until Saturday for me, it's a deal. He thinks a moment, and agrees. I pull out the cash I have in my pocket and pay the deposit on it, securing the sale. I'll pay the rest and get it from him on Saturday. [I know the seller, who has been in the audio business here for many years (forty or so, anyway), so I'm not worried about this arrangement. I have his name and phone number, too.]
I liked both of these turntables, and might still end up getting both if the PL-C590 doesn't sell too soon (I'll have more budget for audio in about three weeks) , but I made the snap decision in favor of the PL-L1. Both TTs are pretty rare, but I suspect the PL-L1 may be harder to find, especially outside of Japan. They are both direct drive, but the linear tracking is more unusual. The linear tracking is theoretically potentially superior, but technically more challenging to make work right (and keep working right) and may require more difficult maintenance over time. I didn't have specs in my head to compare them at the time of the decision, but I just felt the PL-L1 was a better grab. Hope I've bought something precious, and haven't bought a maintenance nightmare or a boat anchor with historical interest.
To be honest. I think I was just mostly impressed with the larger size and more exotic, higher-tech look of the linear tracker. It is a big, black (with silver) BEAST of a turntable, in real life. More impressive in person than in the pics I find of it online. Easily 50 percent (or more) larger than the PL-C950. It would make more practical sense for me to buy the smaller deck, but I LIKE the big decks more. :yes:
The choice also solves any questions about the iffy SME tone arm on the other deck, and the eventual price was a bit cheaper for the PL-L1, so I actually chose the cheaper deck (based on purchase price, not necessarily on value), so I saved some cash. I think on sheer visual impact and rarity, the PL-L1 is probably a better bet as a "collectible investment", if any audio gear can be called that. But mostly it was just gut instinct and that "I want it" feeling with the PL-L1 that made up my mind.
Because of the wooden plinth, the PL-L1 is lighter at 26 kg than the PL-C590 with its metal plinth, which weighs in at 31.5 kg. On a buck-per-pound basis, though, it was close to a coin-flip between them.
The PL-C590 may be the more robust because of the cast-metal plinth construction, but both have a generally heavy, solid feel to them, and appear to be well-made.:scratch2: Did I choose right?
I THINK so, but I won't know for sure until Saturday when I get it and have a chance to inspect the purchase more closely and at leisure, but I'm optimistic that I'm going to love this beast and be happy with it. It was such a quick thing that I didn't even get a clear look at the cartridge in the TT I bought, so I'm not even sure what it is. Stupid of me, I know. :thumbsdn: Of course, I have my fingers crossed that it works great, and that all I'll have to do is renew (oil/wax/polish) the cosmetics and do a basic maintenance-level lube job on the mechanisms. I'm slightly concerned about any really bac technical problems with the linear-tracking mechanism, as I'm not familiar with its particular complexities, but trust the expertise of the dealer (he repairs gear expertly, I know for a fact) who said it is running well as-is. I'll definitely be looking for a service manual for it, and scouting out who has the most expertise with these things around here. I want to make sure it is in tip-top shape, if I'm going to keep it for my main system "upgrade".
IF I've chosen well, I may have finally found a turntable that will be good enough sonically, pretty and "exotic" enough visually, and just generally "cool" enough to keep me happy for a good long time. My emphasis this year is "fewer but better", and if this deck turns out to be as good as I hope it is, then for sure I'll get rid of all the mid-fi decks I still have around, except one or two only [maybe one for testing junky or questionable records on, one for playing CD-4 quad records, and one old Dual for 78 (and 16) rpm records. Maybe not even that many.].
I THINK the PL-L1 is/should be the best-quality turntable I've ever owned, and am hoping it actually performs as impressively as it looks. Please correct me if I'm a deluded idiot who made the wrong snap decision and bought a flawed headache instead of a rare dream find. Comments from owners or former owners especially appreciated.
PICs/LINKS:
[Having trouble posting pics, so some links first:]
Here is a link to pics/ info on the PL-C590 that I didn't grab, and may end up not getting at all: http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PLC590/PLC590.html
Here is a Japanese listing that contains many pics of the PL-L1 turntable that I AM getting: http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d82796813
I know it is nice and not all that common, but I had no idea it was valued that highly. Makes paying half that much with the SME thrown into the deal look like a bargain! Then again, eBay prices can get crazy on occasion.