Nichicon KG capacitors: type I, II and III

margus_

margus_

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The Nichicon KG series has three different types (grades): I, II and III. Type III is is named "Super Trough" and should have the best sound. Type I and II are both named "Gold tune". I am particularly interested in whether there is a significant difference between types I and II. If a available capacitor with a suitable capacitance and size is type I, should I worry that it is somehow worse than having a type II with the same characteristics?
 
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I'm doubtful main filter caps have a huge difference in sound between different makes and products, assuming you use good quality parts.
Normally I use the best quality part I can fit comfortably, if the budget of the project allows it.

If you are using them as output coupling caps in a cap coupled receiver then they will make more difference.

Any of the KG gold tune caps should do a fine job. I don't think I normally have a choice between types for a specific size and value.
 
The type III Super Through caps seem to be available for larger values only. And they are the only ones that have solder terminals instead of snap in leads, which is nice.

I normally don't have a lot of room to be picky when picking filter caps.
 
Yes, I need them for output coupling. Capicator must be 6800 uf / 63uf / d=30mm. Only KG type I is available. I read that nichicon KS is higher grade than KG type I, but also not available d=30mm. None of them is expensive, I just want a satisfactory result
 
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margus_ said:
Au555a sansui integrated.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...storation-upgrade-of-a-sansui-au-555a.816754/
I do everything according to the instructions on this topic, but I want the output capicators to be the same diameter as the old ones
Click to expand...
The ones in that thread looked like they were kept the same diameter as well?

I also like to keep caps the same diameter, I'll never made much smaller caps fit by sticking pieces of foam around them like some do.
Sometimes I'll decrease the diameter a bit if I can easily fit a smaller clamp. If original caps are 40mm I can use the kemet PYC6041‎ clamp. It fits in the same mounting holes and takes a 35mm clamp.
Get the best audio cap you can fit comfortably but don't lose sleep if you can't fit the absolute highest end ones.
 
S-MA.jpg I talk about these two big capicators on the main amp board (c819 / c820 ). In that thread he has used d=22 mm, but old ones were d=30 mm
 
LKS = "Hi-Sound" and below the three different KG/LKG types (according to Nichicon). Super-Through Type III are my favorites, but the others sound very good. I wouldn't sweat it. You normally don't have a choice between all four and just have to take what series is available to purchase in your size. Just so you know, these replacements are all two pin, "snap-in type" with 10mm lead spacing. Your originals are the 4-pin variety with bigger lead spacing, closer to 23mm from positive to negative.

If you can get away with pushing C809 and C810 back a little to make room, I would recommend these 4-pin 35mm capacitors.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cornell-dubilier-electronics-cde/383LX682M080A052/2256631
 
On Nichicon KS data sheet is written: Smaller and high-tone quality than LKG TYPE- 1 grade. I don't know if that really means anything. In any case, KG type 1 is slightly more expensive than Nichicon KS: LKG1J682MESBAK 5,95 € / LKS1J682MESA 5,23 € .
I don't know if money can measure goodness. The price differences are actually small for different types, which would suggest that the quality is quite similar for all...
 
I've never been disappointed with any of them. I recently used the Hi-Sound on an ADS A2 integrated amp and couldn't be happier with the way that turned out. They're more similar sounding than they are different. The Super-Through are perhaps a little cleaner, clearer, or more "modern" sounding while still being very pleasing to the ear, versus some of the other overly punchy or bright general purpose caps with higher ripple from other brands with lower ESR which can sometimes sound over-emphasized by comparison. For some reason, the LKG III reminds me a lot of the UKZ Muse series in the way it sounds, with the edge in fidelity going to the Super-Through.

As mentioned earlier, none of these 2-pin KG types would snap right into your Sansui power board as they have smaller (10mm) lead spacing while your board appears to use the 4-pin layout with larger lead spacing. Don't overlook the Cornell-Dubilier either. It plugs right in and sounds good.
 
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Ah. The original value for those caps is 1500/63V. Increasing the value will change the sound a decent amount, is that what you want?
It will have less of the cap coupled sound.
I don't see any reason to keep the diameter the same for those caps.
 
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I've done a comparison between the KS and KG as outputs, recently in a cap coupled amp.
I went with the KS in the end because they placed less emphasis on the lower frequencies as the KG
The KG felt more powerful and the KS a little more polite, like when playing strings and vocals.
As mentioned, you'll be happy with either.
 
Definitely check that for the output coupling caps you order snap-in type, not the solder lug type as these will certainly not fit onto the PCB :)
 
For output coupling caps, the rated ripple current is an important factor of interest because it's current being pumped to the speakers, and phase shift to keep best linearity across the audible bandwidth. So look at the rated ripple current between type I, II, III ( well, spoiler alert.... it becomes better when increasing type number....). But it's handy when comparing different brands.
Phase shift becomes less with increased rated voltage (that applies for any electrolytic capacitor). So for that reason, going to 100V rated caps will provide less phase shift. And type III has the least phase shift between the types for a given rated voltage.

ESR is no interest for this application. However, ESL (inductivity) is very much of interest due to the current application, and output stages don't like inductive loads
This is where audio caps like the FG and KG come in, their ESL is nicely low (due to the way they are winded and internal termination to the external terminals).
ESL is rarely mentioned on datasheets, one of the reasons why I invested in serious RCL testgear with measuring frequencies covering 0 to 200kHz, and sharing the obtained knowledge here.

The reason why the casing size increases from type I to III is due to the thicker insulating film between layers.
And as the Japanese domestic high end DIY audio scene is still very much hardwired tube amp orientated, and Nichicon being deeply involved in audio parts, they (luckily) maintain a solder lug version.
 
Note that the leads on those caps are custom, not standard four pin -- on the standard version the two unconnected pins are offset toward the positive lead to prevent them from being inserted backwards during assembly, and they will NOT fit without modification. Measure the lead spacing between the positive and negative leads on the board to see if there is anything with a direct fit. Standard four pin is probably the correct lead spacing, but the dummy leads will have to be cut off. not an issue, they are only there to stabilized the large caps in high vibration operation, so unless you are in the habit of bouncing your audio equipment around in a truck while using it they aren't needed.

There are axial leaded caps available in that range with normal leads too, that may be a better way to go as the leads can be formed to fix. They will probably be smaller diameter though.
 
Let's say KG 4700uf and KG 6800uf are both suitable. Which would be a better capicator, 4700uf type 2 or 6800uf type 1?
 
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