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Speaker cables - I share this at great peril
- Thread starter onwardjames
- Start date
Nobody doubts that, and I am sure you hear a difference. The problem is our brain - we don't have as much control over it as we like to imagine.
The way you want to conduct the test (by yourself) is useless:
- changing cables yourself is a no-no
- the time it takes to do it is a no-no
- not matching the volume (by measuring) very closely is a no-no
- changing your listening position going back and forth is a no-no.
But do it by all means, if you think you'll have fun with it.
If you want to know what you're able to differentiate, take the test - the "cables", though interconnects, are different enough: ABX CONDUCTOR TEST — ABX Blind Listening Experiment
Have fun.
You could always bring your own cables, to do a proper comparison.
jazzmans
Super Member
yeah, lots of problems since yesterday.
as to the speaker cable thing. There was a time I was using Coax (cable tv cable), but now I just use 12-16 guage ofc. I think corroded contacts account for more difference then anything else. YMMV.
You could always bring your own cables, to do a proper comparison.
This^
Won’t work! As someone said above, takes too much time. Acoustic memory is measured in seconds. Also you would know which one you were listening to. It’s not about your honesty – no one here doubts your word! It’s about the ways in which the brain plays tricks on us.
This is also why I don’t think @RVT1K ‘s idea would work. As mentioned, the time it takes to switch cables, the potential for inconsistent connections and the associated noise would cast doubt on the result.
I don’t know whether the two sets of wires would result in different SPL levels – I suspect not. Which is why I thought that wiring them in parallel would help to eliminate one of the biggest variables in listening tests, which is level matching.
Wire and cable upgrades can make an audible difference, but they're rarely a stand alone miracle fix for an otherwise unoptimized system that some may think. Same goes for isolation, power supply upgrades, capacitors, resistors, opamps, DACs, etc. If treated as a singular upgrade, I'm not surprised that many will come away disappointed ....these are all small steps that by themselves are sometimes barely audible. But, if you take several small steps, they can really add up to be the difference between an average decent system, and a really good system. What's audible to each of us on our own system is always a variable, but the clearer the system is in the first place, the more revealing of small changes it becomes with every little improvement.
I've never been in a position to justify spending thousands of dollars on cables, but I have spent a few hundred to try several over the years until I found something that really works well for me. This is a hobby. It's fun to tinker with it and learn. Taking no steps to optimize your system guarantees that you'll get no improvement, but it you're willing to take some time, spend a small percentage of your overall audio investment to optimize what you have, you stand a very good chance of taking your rig to the next level, if that's something you're interested in.
I've never been in a position to justify spending thousands of dollars on cables, but I have spent a few hundred to try several over the years until I found something that really works well for me. This is a hobby. It's fun to tinker with it and learn. Taking no steps to optimize your system guarantees that you'll get no improvement, but it you're willing to take some time, spend a small percentage of your overall audio investment to optimize what you have, you stand a very good chance of taking your rig to the next level, if that's something you're interested in.
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fredgarvin
Super Member
Congrats on your unexpected level up! I'm sure you expected the responses you got and no doubt you've contacted a sound lab to come out and verify what you hear. i trust my ears too.
Or, and hey, just a suggestion, come have a cup of coffee with me, and we work on the whole "world going to hell" problem together, perhaps even enjoy a song or two? I jest, my good sir, but the offer is always open.
Very familiar with Baader Meinhoff.
What I am hearing, without providing any data, footnotes, expert comments, a thorough table of contents, appendix, and a partridge in a pear tree, is stunning, happy clarity.
There is a level of exactness I hadn't heard before.
Frankly, I can understand the comments, even the testy, bristly ones. It is okay, I get it.
But for the outlay I provided AFTER a free pair, I am quite satisfied. I think I spent more on two dinner meals this weekend than I did on these new cables.
I will wait until I have someone with me to attempt any kind of tit for tat. At the barest minimum, I do believe these retain the good, and block the bad. They are also seriously pretty to see.
Thanks for the open minds and kind words from all. This is a hobby, and should be entertaining.
But but one can always remember what was not there before vs what is there now. I.e. greater detail and clarity. And, as @onwardjames mentioned, better sound stage and imaging.
One of the oddest things I noticed was an old sacd iso file of early max roach. Last night, while enjoying that, I noticed what sounded like the tape slightly rolling off the head a little, maybe even a crinkle sound I associate with my days in radio working them old Otari units.
Went back and re-listened.
Yep, definitely tape got a little chewed.
Astounding. It was there all along, clear as day.
Went back and re-listened.
Yep, definitely tape got a little chewed.
Astounding. It was there all along, clear as day.
Davron94
Well-Known Member
I loved my 14ft, 12 AWG, CAT5 cables that I built myself many years ago using this guy's technique:
It is very tedious work, but I thought it was worth it in the end. I added rubber boots, Sewell compression banana plugs, and a nice net sheath. They came out great and I used them for many years on my main system. I had to switch back over to regular speaker cables due to a layout change to my main system and I do feel like there is something missing from the whole soundstage. It still sounds very good, but not as good.
I started working on a set of 25ft cables, but it is very difficult to properly braid the twisted pairs with this long of a run! I gave up on it, but may get back to it after I finish all of the other equipment refurbishments I have lined up!
DIY Cat5 Speaker Cables
How to Construct Audiophile Speaker Cables from Cat5 Network Cable
www.venhaus1.com
It is very tedious work, but I thought it was worth it in the end. I added rubber boots, Sewell compression banana plugs, and a nice net sheath. They came out great and I used them for many years on my main system. I had to switch back over to regular speaker cables due to a layout change to my main system and I do feel like there is something missing from the whole soundstage. It still sounds very good, but not as good.
I started working on a set of 25ft cables, but it is very difficult to properly braid the twisted pairs with this long of a run! I gave up on it, but may get back to it after I finish all of the other equipment refurbishments I have lined up!
Leave the room, have a friend flip a coin, heads the new cables, tails the old ones. Then have him remove the cables and reinstall/replace depending on heads or tails. He should write down the choice. Then have him leave the room without coming into contact. Then you decide if things have improved or stayed the same. You should write down the choice. Repeat many times, then compare lists.
That's why when my wife answers the phone, I always start the conversation with, "You sound familiar. Do I know you?"
whoaru99
Epic Member
I think that's been dispelled as a good example of the type of audio memory of topic.
We all can recognize a great number things with only a little information whilst the fine details really don't even factor in.
pete_mac
Super Member
@onwardjames thanks for sharing your experiences!
My personal experiences with Cat5 cables are similar to yours.
I currently use a pair of 12awg Cat5 speaker cables and I remain impressed with the additional clarity and improved sound compared to other relatively affordable cables that I've used, including the previous Canare 4S8 and 4S11. Definitely the icing on the cake in my system which is quite revealing of changes in cables and sources.
I have configured mine for lower inductance but slightly higher capacitance, with solid copper spades and beryllium copper BFA banana plugs.
It's a shame that your post which has been made in "The Cutting Edge" section of the forum (with its forum-specific and unique rules) but is still subject the usual "blind test/ABX/it's all in your mind" responses.
My personal experiences with Cat5 cables are similar to yours.
I currently use a pair of 12awg Cat5 speaker cables and I remain impressed with the additional clarity and improved sound compared to other relatively affordable cables that I've used, including the previous Canare 4S8 and 4S11. Definitely the icing on the cake in my system which is quite revealing of changes in cables and sources.
I have configured mine for lower inductance but slightly higher capacitance, with solid copper spades and beryllium copper BFA banana plugs.
It's a shame that your post which has been made in "The Cutting Edge" section of the forum (with its forum-specific and unique rules) but is still subject the usual "blind test/ABX/it's all in your mind" responses.
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PaleRider
New Member
Speakercables will depend on type of amp, those tiny threads over will fit a high voltage low effect tubeamp. A low voltage high effect transistor-amp on the other hand is very sensitive to even the lowest recistanse, meaning it will not open up until you`re close to no resitance by using heavy solid core* single conductors.
* a bunch of thin conductors in a "stranded" cable will perform like just that, a bunch of thin condfuctors. A big single conductor performs on a wery different level, think waterpipe. About thick conductors; be aware that they wiløl need close to one hour of heavy massage to open up and get rid of static charges
* a bunch of thin conductors in a "stranded" cable will perform like just that, a bunch of thin condfuctors. A big single conductor performs on a wery different level, think waterpipe. About thick conductors; be aware that they wiløl need close to one hour of heavy massage to open up and get rid of static charges
I braided 4 into 2 into 1 (silver 10AWG) cables some years ago for a longer run, just zip-tied to a doorknob on the far end of a long hallway, started at the doorknob and worked my way down the hall, stopping occasionally to straighten everything out, probably took around an hour per cable. Not a terrible task (helps that I raised 3 daughters).
