Time Window 3 recap

[shanepp]

Hi, I'm wanting to recap my TW3s, mainly to replace the electrolytics with polypropylene film ones. There are also 9 x 3uF and 1 x 1.5uF caps as shown in the photo. Can someone positively identify what type these are and whether or not they should be replaced also. The high frequencies were a bit muted for my liking, but by adjusting the tweeter level pot and the upper two trimpots to the max I'm getting a pretty decent sound out of them. Who knows how good they can really sound with new caps? As you can see from the schematic most of the 3uF caps are in parallel with the tweeters, but the others are in series with the tweeters and midrange driver which could make them more critical. I'm new to recapping crossovers so I'm hoping someone can share their wisdom and experience to help me get this right. I'm also considering mounting everything on a pcb and do away with the plywood and tagstrip train wreck that it is now. Cheers.

 

[trinhsman]

First, I know nothing about crossovers. With that said, if they sound good, leave things alone. I bought a set of Time Windows years ago for very little money. I gave them to my son in law. They still sound amazing.
I’ve changed out crossovers in two sets of speakers I own. One set was done by someone I consider a crossover savant. The other by a very knowledgeable speaker person. One set came out amazing. The other ended up slightly worse off.
So, unless you have access to some real experts, I recommend leaving things as is.
My 2 cents.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Your photo shows No electrolytic caps. Those are film caps, probably Mylar and swapping in polypropylene for those is not a game-changing move but a small improvement.

Maybe the 10, 47 and 100 are ‘lytics and film replacements will be big or very big so mounting them could be a project. Then there is getting inside the TW3. I don’t know how hard that is. The original TW is not service friendly. But it doesn’t need service. Mine sound great b

 

[Dave1027]

Those are Milar capacitors. Also known as Polyester film. They are not as good as Polypropylene film. Looks like DCM hit a fire sale on 3 uf Milars then designed the crossover to make use of them. That's an odd schematic for sure.

 

[Nat]

It is odd looking, but handsome is as handsome does, and Eberbach's designs sound way better than one could reasonably expect. So I'd leave the crossovers as is unless there are any electrolytics in there which could be tested without too much more work.

 

[shanepp]

Hi Guys, thanks for your feedback. Now that I have had those small capacitors identified I've done a bit of research into mylar vs polypropylene film and the polys win hands down. So I've now decided to replace all capacitors and because of the size of the 100 and 47 uF ones I am going to rebuild the entire thing on prototype PBC. It should be a fun project and they should sound ever so sweet.

 

[Blue Shadow]

research into mylar vs polypropylene film and the polys win hands down.

Actually, both are poly caps. Your wording makes it obvious which is which, no problem there.

But the Mylar auto corrected to capitalized because it is a trade name for polyester film that has over the years become the common name for polyester sheet in general, just like the word Kleenex for tissues.

Looking forward to the show and tell of your project and your comments on the improvements you hear. Enjoy making the upgrade.

 

[shanepp]

Thanks mate. Caps ordered and I'll keep you updated.

 

[shanepp]

I have finally done the crossover rebuild and they now sound amazing. This ends nearly 3 months of frustration, trying to get the capacitors from China. The first place I ordered them from had cheap prices, but turned out to be scammers. Amazingly, I ended up getting most of my money back, but it cost me a month. I then ordered them from a reputable place on eBay, but that coincided with the start of the Chinese New Year break, so nothing happened for the first 10 days. Then when they finally arrived I discovered that instead of sending me 2 bags of 10 of the 3uF ones they sent 2 individual capacitors. They immediately send the remaining ones which arrived 3 weeks later. So as you can see, it has been a bit of a saga. The actual designing and building was fun. I haven't done anything like this for ages.

 

[Darylpoynter]

How did this whole thing turn out, big improvement?

I just picked up a pair of pristine Time Window 3’s. I have a pair of of Timeframe 600’s that I recapped and it was a huge improvement. The TW3’s look a little daunting since I’ve only done the TF600 and it was super basic and easy.

 

[shanepp]

It has finally turned out very well. When I bought them, the high frequencies were very muted. The recap made a bit of difference. Then I renewed the ferrofluid in the tweeters which also improved things, but not dramatically. I then made contact with a guy who had the same problem and he had found that the thermistors at the inputs to the crossover circuits had deteriorated over time and were adding resistance to the circuit when under load. So I removed them and put the factory set adjustments back to their original positions and they sound wonderful. There was a lot of work involved but it was worth it. I actually enjoyed the designing, building and restoration process so it didn't feel like hard work. How do yours sound?

 

[Darylpoynter]

They sound good and I replaced my Time Frame 600s with them in the same spot after testing them side by side. The room they are in is very large with 20’ ceilings and I felt they filled the space better than the 600s. After replacing the caps in the 600s I was blown away at the improvement, but they are in a smaller room which helps with the sound. Now, I have the itch to mess with the TW’s, thinking that I’m missing the full potential of them.

I’m concerned about taking the wood end caps apart since they are in such great cosmetic condition. Also, it’s getting confusing trying to get proper information on the 3s because there is so much info on the 1’s.
Is the cross over in the top of the 3’s and the bottom of the 1’s?

I should probably let them be for awhile and enjoy them or lug them upstairs where the 600s are and do a side by side in a different room.

Thanks for the response!

 

[shanepp]

If they sound good now, it probably may not make a lot of difference now, but it will ensure that they stay sounding great for many more years to come. You are lucky to have a big space to enjoy them, but I must admit that they make a small space sound big.
The caps are easy to get on and off with a minor modification. I made the hole in the baseplate a little bigger so that I can fit a thin walled metal pipe through it and over the threaded shaft. It makes it so easy and there's no chance of damaging the crossover which is mounted on it. I also used a larger washer and a nut with a flared base.
Whether or not you want to go to the extent I went to is up to you. You might be lucky and have the later version where the crossovers are on a pcb.
Should you decide to replace the ferrofluid in the tweeters, that's an interesting process. They don't make it easy to remove the tweeters, but once out it is very easy.
I hope that helps. If there's anything else I can help you with, just ask.

 

[dbuz]

How did this whole thing turn out, big improvement?

I just picked up a pair of pristine Time Window 3’s. I have a pair of of Timeframe 600’s that I recapped and it was a huge improvement. The TW3’s look a little daunting since I’ve only done the TF600 and it was super basic and easy.

How difficult was the recap on the TF600's? There's a suspiciously cheap pair for sale within an hour's drive, but I assume they'll need work. I've liked every DCM speaker I've ever heard, but I've never actually owned any. I think it's time.

 

[Darylpoynter]

How difficult was the recap on the TF600's? There's a suspiciously cheap pair for sale within an hour's drive, but I assume they'll need work. I've liked every DCM speaker I've ever heard, but I've never actually owned any. I think it's time.

It was easy. It’s one cap per speaker. When I bought the speakers I also replaced 3 out of 6 tweeters. It was also easy but annoying with the crumbling/ powder foam they coated the speaker with under the sock. Mine were a little beat up but I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a worse condition pair and do some work on them. Also, this is the first time I ever did any type of speaker repair and solder anything. I love the TF600.

 

[Nat]

I wouldn't assume that a low price is necessarily suggestive of issues. DCM isn't widely known outside of the audio community and tall speakers like the Time Frames are a tough sell now that a fancy stereo is no longer a necessary status symbol.

 

[dbuz]

It was easy. It’s one cap per speaker. When I bought the speakers I also replaced 3 out of 6 tweeters. It was also easy but annoying with the crumbling/ powder foam they coated the speaker with under the sock. Mine were a little beat up but I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a worse condition pair and do some work on them. Also, this is the first time I ever did any type of speaker repair and solder anything. I love the TF600.

That's awesome. Now I just have to sell the wife on them.

 

[dbuz]

I wouldn't assume that a low price is necessarily suggestive of issues. DCM isn't widely known outside of the audio community and tall speakers like the Time Frames are a tough sell now that a fancy stereo is no longer a necessary status symbol.

You might be right. I live in SE MI so there are a lot of them around, hometown company and all. Prices are sort of all over, with the smaller ones often being more expensive. There's a pair of time windows available too, but I've never actually heard them.

 

[Darylpoynter]

You might be right. I live in SE MI so there are a lot of them around, hometown company and all. Prices are sort of all over, with the smaller ones often being more expensive. There's a pair of time windows available too, but I've never actually heard them.

I used to live in SE Michigan and only heard about them after I left and was talking to my grandparents neighbor in traverse city on a visit. He said he had Time Windows and I thought that was the coolest name for speakers. I got home and was looking at marketplace a few months later and some guy was selling a bunch of DCM Time Frames and it triggered that memory. I wouldn’t say I got a deal necessarily but my TF600s were 300 and I just picked up some Time Window 3s in great cosmetic condition for 350 a year after having loved my TF600s.
I never was into stereo equipment or speakers so I don’t have a reference to most speakers and how they sound, but when I wanted to have a nice stereo setup I went to a local HiFi store and the sales guy showed me all sorts of stuff but I realized that’s not for me. Their basic beginner setup would have cost me like 3000 bucks. That’s too much for me. I thought my dreams of having a nice stereo were over until that Timeframe ad showed up. Couldn’t be happier with them. They are so fun to listen to.

 

[Nat]

You are on to something. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, and there are speakers that are just great to listen to. If a system gives you pleasure, why look further?