What, exactly, constitutes an artist "selling out?"

[finnbow]

I'll admit upfront that I'm highly skeptical of the whole notion of an artist "selling out," despite having heard this term being bandied about for years.

Question: Is there such thing as an artist selling out or is anything they choose to do with their career and intellectual property OK? I think I fall in the latter camp. However, I'd be interested in hearing what constitutes "selling out" in your view as well as some concrete examples of it.

 

[petehall347]

i have heard the term sold out to the music companies regarding bands that were underground then have gone commercial . some very good ones actually then they went bad after signing the get rich quick deals .

 

[waterjetguy]

I know that Randy Newman (Short People, I Love LA) was accused of selling out when he started doing movie scores (Charlotte's Web).

His reaction was that he had pounded his head against the wall trying to sell popular music for decades and no one was buying, so what was he supposed to do, take a vow of poverty?

His experience is a great example of how unfair the music biz is.
All the talent in the world is nothing compared to a hot piece of a** that can almost hold a tune.:thumbsdn:

Makes me wonder if an artist like Aretha Franklin would make it out of the gospel market these days.:scratch2:

 

[nickv41]

Well, lately, I hear lots of AC/DC tunes all sorts of radio commercials. Not that I mind. If a band can make a buck selling their product, they should be free to do so. Thats capitalism. I cant say I wouldnt do the same.
Then there are musicians like Jimmy Page that refused to sell out to Nintendo Guitar Hero. He gave up millions of easy money. His attitude was "If a kid wants to play guitar, they should learn on a real guitar". I admire that as well.

 

[Tom Brennan]

I don't think musicians sell out, like anyone else they have to make a living and seek to make the most they can for their efforts.

Now some fans gain self esteem by liking things that are esoteric, it makes them feel special to like musicians others don't know about. When such an act makes a big record deal and becomes big some such fans may feel jealous and resentful, like a jilted lover. Then they'll accuse the act of selling out with the implication that now that large numbers of people like them they can't be good anymore. Because the fan can't feel special liking what evryone else likes, then the fan is just.....ordinary. Can't have that.

As for acts running out gas once they become mainstream, well some acts only have so many good songs in them and often those are used on the early recordings. By the time they sign and become big they've already given the best they're ever going to have.

 

[JohnVF]

I hear it often in regards to bands licensing songs to commercials. I don't view that as always selling out (depends on what they're selling), but I view it as ALWAYS selling out when they go in and change the lyrics to a song to better fit the ad.

As for Jimmy Page not selling out- its a lot easier to not sell out when you have Jimmy Page's money. A guy I know licensed a song by the band Low for a commercial and it really saved the day for them, as the husband/wife in the band were having a baby and the money from that one commercial probably gave them more cash than making another album. An indie band has far fewer options to make money than somebody like Bono.

 

[JohnVF]

As for acts running out gas once they become mainstream, well some acts only have so many good songs in them and often those are used on the early recordings. By the time they sign and become big they've already given the best they're ever going to have.

Reminds me of my friend Steve, who just released a mod/garage/rock album. He said "This is the album I've been writing for 35 years". Great...so what are you going to do when the want another in 2? It was a joke, as he's got the chops but its true for a lot of bands I've followed. The first album is great, the second one is what they had left over that should have stayed on the floor, and the third is a return to greatness, followed by the shitty albums that come when they're bored of it and realize that touring isn't all beer and blowjobs. Not that I don't regret following the dreams of my youth....

 

[Hajidub]

"Selling out" is very subjective. Normally I find it associated with regular airplay on the radio, and in some cases the quality of a bands music seems to decline when they go "big time." I read an article once that explained that Sid Vicious used to be good buds with the members of The Clash, but when The Clash "sold out to constant radio play", they drifted apart to the point where Sid talked a lot of crap and despised them.

 

[nickv41]

As for Jimmy Page not selling out- its a lot easier to not sell out when you have Jimmy Page's money.

Well that is true. However, his career is over. He is nothing but a kind of ambassador of rock now. I think if most people were honest with themselves, they would have sold out to Nintendo at this stage of their career regardless of how much money is in the bank.

 

[Tom Brennan]

I know that Randy Newman (Short People, I Love LA) was accused of selling out when he started doing movie scores (Charlotte's Web).

Given that Newman is part of a family that's prolific in making movie music I figured when he started scoring pictures he'd found his true calling. I think he's much better as a picture scorer than he was at Pop music.

I think he's in good company with his uncles Alfred and Lionel and guys like Korngold, Rosza, Herrmann, Elmer Bernstein, Waxman, Prokofieff, and Friedhoffer.

 

[Kismet1968]

Q: What, exactly, constitutes an artist "selling out?"

A: When someone has the opinion that an artist "sold out"

Just my opinion.:scratch2:

 

[ebacon]

Artists can use their intellectual property the way they want but sometimes it goes too far and IMO constitutes selling out. Case in point was Alan Jackson during his stint with Ford. He went as far as changing the lyrics in his songs to include Ford in them during concerts. I saw his show during the period and when I walked out I felt like I just paid to watch a Ford commercial. It was icky.

 

[The Bone]

I used to feel strongly about this subject, but I have mellowed in my old age....:yes:

The closest thing I have witnessed to a musical artist selling out was Bob Dylan doing Victoria Secret commercials a couple of years back, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it anymore....

 

[finnbow]

Now some fans gain self esteem by liking things that are esoteric, it makes them feel special to like musicians others don't know about. When such an act makes a big record deal and becomes big some such fans may feel jealous and resentful, like a jilted lover. Then they'll accuse the act of selling out with the implication that now that large numbers of people like them they can't be good anymore. Because the fan can't feel special liking what evryone else likes, then the fan is just.....ordinary. Can't have that.

Excellent point, Tom. If I'm honest with myself, I plead guilty. My personal examples include turning on Springsteen and Peter Frampton with the releases of Born to Run and Frampton Comes Alive, respectively. Their huge success with these albums left me with negative feelings about them. Bizarre, yet to this today, I still don't like their music starting with these albums. Old habits die hard.

 

[dumptruck]

I really don't think we need any deep thinking here. When an artist does something different than what they feel is the best art because of financial considerations, however large or small, that's "selling out". Obviously, that could range from something nobody should ever be given a hard time about to downright disgusting.

Now, if you're talking about the notion that an artist is one thing, and then "sells out" and from that point on they are something different, I don't buy that as any sort of real-world concept, even if it does fit the career description of some.

 

[Tom Brennan]

Excellent point, Tom. If I'm honest with myself, I plead guilty. My personal examples include turning on Springsteen and Peter Frampton with the releases of Born to Run and Frampton Comes Alive, respectively. Their huge success with these albums left me with negative feelings about them. Bizarre, yet to this today, I still don't like their music starting with these albums. Old habits die hard.

Oh yeah, I've done the same thing. It's just when you get older you understand your motivations better (or should I say you know you're an idiot but can shrug and accept it?).

Frampton, yeah. He was cool in Humble Pie, uncool when he sold millions of records and then cool again when he worked for David Bowie. Meanwhile through all this he suited himself and no doubt made a handsome living.

 

[krowmagnum]

I think "selling out" is usually what someone says about an artist they are jealous of... Although the Alan Jackson Ford song in a concert is lame and qualifies if anything does.

Punk and some other kinds of music, as well as all kinds of underground art are based on non-conformity and anti-commercial/anti-establishment principles so when one of those bands or artists go commercial I can see how others would feel they sold out.

As an artist I learned that if I want to make money doing art I have to do what others want and it may not meet the standards of design or quality that I set for myself. Which is why most of the artwork I do is for friends and it's free. When it's free nobody argues with me about it. I think there's a line that every artist has to draw for themselves.

 

[1tumbleweed]

Excellent point, Tom. If I'm honest with myself, I plead guilty. My personal examples include turning on Springsteen and Peter Frampton with the releases of Born to Run and Frampton Comes Alive, respectively. Their huge success with these albums left me with negative feelings about them. Bizarre, yet to this today, I still don't like their music starting with these albums. Old habits die hard.

Frampton? Selling out? When was he ever "in"? Sure, now he's this elder statesman of...something...but I don't think he ever had the "stature", if you will, of Springsteen. I think Dylan is the most prominent example, with the aforementioned Victoria's Secret commercial.

OTOH, I don't think any musician revels in the "starving artist" perception. Any singer/songwriter/performer who says he doesn't care about making a living with his art is disingenuous. The only artist I can think of who was obstinately blind to commercial advantages was Phil Ochs. I don't think we'll be hearing any commercials with "I Ain't Marching Anymore"...correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[JohnVF]

I think its when they put green lights under their tubes.

 

[finnbow]

Frampton? Selling out? When was he ever "in"? Sure, now he's this elder statesman of...something...but I don't think he ever had the "stature", if you will, of Springsteen.

For me, Frampton was "in" while with Humble Pie and for his first two solo albums, Winds of Change and Frampton's Camel. The latter is actually a very good album, without the voice box kitch that came later with Frampton Comes Alive (his sellout album, by my sensibilities of the time as Tom B. explained). Frampton Comes Alive makes my skin crawl and I haven't listened to anything he's done since.